New Dungeons

[PaulH]

I don't know how many people download new dungeons, but it would be much appreciated people at least dropped a quick message by to say that they have. It's not like you have to pay or anything. I just can't see the point of spending a couple of weeks concocting a new creation if only four people are going to benifit. I will review everything I have downloaded once I feel I have played them enough to warrant a valid opinion. And that is important. So maybe if us designers knew that a lot of people appreciated what we do then we would make more. Surely good for everybody. It's just when you see that nobody has posted here for nearly TWO WEEKS that you realise something is not quite right... SO if you have played something new, just take out a minute to say you have. That is nothing compared to the weeks that some people have spent creating what is sitting in your hard drive.

Thanks,

PaulH

[Christopher]

I agree. I doubt I'll even bother finishing my new dungeon unless I can find out if anyone plays the one I made, or any other dungeon for that matter. After all, as far as I know, only one person besides me has played my dungeon. I would download and play more of them, but at the moment DM2 is my top game priority. It's just been too long since I had played it last. I will certainly play them all and any new ones that show up.

[PaulH]

I've played most the dungeons, I admit, but I have forgot which is which as there quite a lot, so I have to play them all again!!! But the next goes will be with one man as this tests flexibilty of dungeons and myself. But reviews are on the way for everything, so when they do arrive be assured that they have been thoroughly tested. I am trying to juggle my time between DM and mountain biking as the weather here in the UK is uncharacteristically nice at the moment.
To people who have posted dungeons here, many thanks for your hard work, and keep it up: it is much appreciated.

[sucinum]

>So maybe if us designers knew that a lot of people appreciated what we do then we would make more.
i do NOT build the dungeons for other people but only for myself
of course i like it, when other ppl play them and like them, but mainly they are constructed to please ME.

[PaulH]

Just for yourself? Fair enough! Most people probably DON'T think like that and design them for others I guess, as they are trying to give back a little of what they have gained from this site. I get a little satisfaction from the design, but because I know it inside out it loses its appeal pretty quickly when playing. Therefore they don't particularly please me to play (which is the whole point as it is the end product); I need some new stuff to get stuck into, to explore. However I do feel satisfied when my family play my creations as it feels like the time has been worthwhile: well thats why I designed them. But do keep posting your dungeons anyway cos I do think they are very good. All I am saying is, if you have downloaded something, just say that you have, because a lot of us do design for others enjoyment and would like the feedback.

[sucinum]

i didnt play the most other dungeons, i just have stolen many trap ideas :p
i postet that somewhere else, but i think, most dungeons are too complicated to me, i dont really want to get stuck tens of hours in 1 dungeon. of course, PURE hack+slay is boring, too, atm im finding out the balance between fights and riddles...its far less riddles than the original dm had.
once you created a dungeon by yourself, you can see, how many riddles are there in dm or csb, and how many complex ones. now i can really appreciate how great work they are (and why csb took 7 years to come after dm). thats another lvl than my dungeons and im not going to copy that style, but make my own, small, funny dungeons
to be honest, im slightly tired of playing dm, but i love creating dungeons still.

>However I do feel satisfied when my family play my creations as it feels like the time has been worthwhile
i think, you misunderstood me a bit. i build dungeons the way I like them, but of course i want others to play them, thats the best on it (but id create even for me alone). but i wont create a dungeon that would not please myself, my dungeons are only my style. example: the pit, where you have to jump down without any sign on it. i say: the sign to this pit is: ninja^^. other ppl tend to hate this riddle, i still used it twice, because i like it...btw, my little sis found the key within 5 mins

[PaulH]

That's two hours quicker than it took me to find it!!! Strange that you should say that cos my little sis said, "It'll be down one of them pits!" and I replied "nah!". But it was! I was convinced it was in with the scorpions below. Have you got anything in the pipeline at the moment? My new creation isn't going too bad, I have got a river in it that you have to dam!

[sucinum]

>Strange that you should say that cos my little sis said, "It'll be down one of them pits!" and I replied "nah!".

its just too simple. the key is always at the top floor of each tower. and where else then down a pit. i still think that, in this context, the riddle is rather easy.
im just planning a new dungeon, consisting ONLY 2 towers and some other stuff, but i didnt do anything so far.

>My new creation isn't going too bad, I have got a river in it that you have to dam!

try one of my bennis dungeons, they both have a very nice monsterflood-option, which is, as you will see, PERFECTLY balanced (the one in BD I is even balanced better). you will be through with 0 mana and ~200 hp at each character.

[PicturesInTheDark]

Small note: I found this site some weeks ago and downloaded many dungeons, but I am not one to play them through in a short time. I like to explore dungeons carefully and find out about all the options, tricks and traps, so in my opinion to expect feedback from a lot of people after two weeks is not justified. There's other things happening besides DM, even if it IS a great game.

I will give feedback about any dungeon downloaded and played thoroughly, but I do not think you really want a sloppy feedback after having a quick look on you hard work, do you?

Regards

Pitd

[PaulH]

I am not saying you have to REVIEW it: I am sure many people don't have the time or don't want to, but just say you have downloaded it so we can get an idea of how many people do download. It takes oooh, 10 seconds?
The only reason I spend so much time on here is because I am off work with illness and spend a lot (but not all) of my time at the computer.

[beowuuf]

About the whole key/pit thing: yup, i too had completely no clue
That's the cool thing about getting more people DMuting dungeons - different minds think up different puzzles
Especially when you have played normal DM so much, it's nice just to have that one puzzle or area that is completely new in thinking, but i logical once you see it

[PicturesInTheDark]

Ok: I dowloaded every dungeon available at the moment. Use this information as you please

[PaulH]

Do I detect a hint of sarcasm there?! There are too many people who take and don't give anything back in this world, even if it is just a thank-you...

[PicturesInTheDark]

There is a hint of sarcasm, yes.

But let me clarify: I already wrote I would rate and write a review for each dungeon played through thoroughly, and I intend to keep tjat promise.

I am very well aware of the amount of work such a dungeon takes to make since I did play around a bit with DMute and so I know it takes a lot of time.

I am very glad there are people here that work hard and dedicated on improving the games, additional dungeons and information sources and as far as I can add my share to that I'll be glad to do it.

What I do not understand is (and that's where the sarcasm comes in) what you personally gain from anyone saying "I downloaded it". There's no information in that which qualifies your work. Neither do you know if it was played, modified, has been enjoyable or is simply on an archive on some HD.

So I was trying to imply the notion to give a feedback that is worthy of the work done before or rather not give it at all. If that goes contrary to your views, my apologies. I neither intended to make fun of your work (or any other one's here!) or devaluate any part of it.

Regards

Pitd

[PaulH]

As with most discussions (arguments!), there is no right or wrong, just a matter of opinion. The sarcasm made me laugh actually, I understand your view, but personally I think you should contact the author(s) out of respect. I am not saying write a ten page email grovelling to the composer, but merely say 'I got the dungeon, it works, cheers'. This also serves as an indicator (and the main reason) to the author how many people are downloading the dungeons, because, as you'll agree, there is no point in posting a dungeon with its associated files and story if nobody is going to play it! I know this does not 'qualify' my work, for whatever reason people downloaded it but it gives me an idea of how many people are using this section of the site, whether they enjoy the dungeons or not. I am aware that people may be just using the dungeons for ideas, or whatever, and that a review should be comprehensive and worthy: I don't expect reviews from everybody who downloads a dungeon (mine or anybody elses) as not everybodies' world revolves around DM. But a lot of us (whether we are in the majority or minority, it makes no difference) would like to know how often their dungeons are being played, and people should respect that whether or whether not you agree or disagree or cannot comprehend why they want to know. If you have downloaded 4 weeks of somebodies work, and they want to know, then there shouldn't be a problem. But, to clarify matters a little, I only expect this if you have actually played it, and don't want to review it!!! If you are gonna disect it, inspect it, and steal bits I don't expect to be contacted, I'm just glad you found it useful! Just if you've PLAYED it, this is the main reason I (and others, probably) make them. However in light of this, I will still make dungeons for my family, just not post them here if nobody plays them (unless specifically asked for). I don't want to clog up the upload section with files if people think they are utter crap, and thats why they don't download them! This is better for everyone! Anyway I'll stop there as I sound like a ranting religious fool. Oh and I certainly wasn't offended, and I hope you don't find anything here that offends you as that definately is not my intention.
I word on my new dungeon: a Dragon has swallowed the Grey Lord and he must be rescued! Anybody interested?

[sucinum]

1. id like a downloadcounter for the dungeons here, then you know, how many ppl got your dungeon
2. i did never write any review, because i didnt play any dungeon long enough to write a fair review. but i play any of them and i look at any of them with dmute.
3. i feel not offended by anyone
4. 4 weeks is a bit short for a dungeon, isnt it? i need about 3 months only from the idea over trap construction to the 1st raw build of a dungeon (of course i dont work every day on it)
5. a word on my new dungeon: it will be very different from the previous ones.

[PicturesInTheDark]

Let's close this line of discussion.

I agree on most what you say and probably Amber's suggestion with the counters is the easiest (and most accurate) way to give you the information you want.

Personally, I appreciate every single dungeon I can get my hands on - I know, I will play them or at least give them a try, good time provided.

[PaulH]

Yeah 4 weeks is a bit short, the current one is taking ages. Anybody know why the Grey Lord's graphics distort on level 14, then crashes the game? Can he only 'exist' on level 13. Thanks.
PS he is the only monster on the level.

[sucinum]

>Anybody know why the Grey Lord's graphics distort on level 14, then crashes the game?
check level integrity...thats the only clue i got.

another things:
im getting out of trap ideas, i have had so many different traps in my dungeons, have copied any trap from dm or csb i could reconstruct with my poor knowledge of dmute and invented many own (like 10 or 20 ).
what to do?

btw: how many riddles and stuff do you want in a dungeon?
at the moment, i got a ratio of:
60% fights, 30% riddles, 10% "athmosphere"
its not only the ratio i think about, but its the direct question:
do i need in total more or less...
a) fights
b) riddles
c) athmosphere
do you prefer:
[_] few, but hard fights
[_] many fights, weakening the party over time
do you mind to see known riddles again (and again)
[_]yes
[_]no
thats because i tend to repeat "good" riddles on my dungeons, because i prefer "stupid" riddles to none at all

of course this poll will not REALLY influence my dungeon, but it will help me surely

[Christopher]

Once in a while I like a dungeon that is all fight (like the Diablo one, only it didn't have enough fight in my opinion)
(I assume that riddles and puzzles are the same) I don't like too many. (what's too many? I don't know. I guess more then 4 per level [???])
Although, a dungeon based primarily on puzzles would be neat to play some day.
Atmosphere: what you see is what you get. It seems there isn't much to work with for DM1 dungeon dmuting, so any amount that you can manage would be fine. I get tired of seeing the same stuff, but that can't be helped. ( in the sequel to my new, unfinished dungeon, I'm trying to make a table. Best thing I can come up with is a group of four Screamers)
Do I mind seeing known riddles again? No. Again and again? Yes.

[sucinum]

i personally think that fights are the essence of a dungeon, well balanced, challenging and surprising, thats the fun of DM.
some riddles are important, too, to lighten it up, bring some atmosphere (i think a riddle or a single monster at a place can give more atmosphere than loads of wall texts and scrolls) and challenge the player in a different way.
b
and because i think riddles are as essential as fights are, i do not hesitate to repeat some riddles, even when i could bore you with it
im glad i dont

[PaulH]

Level integrity is fine, so I don't have a clue what's going on.

I suppose there is only so many traps you can do with the current engine, but you can vary the theme. In mine, I had some of the same puzzles and traps as original DM, but added a few twists to them: so that nice shortcut gets you into trouble for example.

I thought your imprisoned again struck the right balance of puzzles/fights (for me anyhow) except for the avalanche of knights near the end. Some people find puzzles easy, some find some monsters easy so a ratio is only relative to a persons ability rather than absolute. I like to have some 'long' riddles or puzzles that span a few levels as this keeps interest high. And I agree its better to have something there than nothing when implementing riddles, even if we have seen them before, so no, I don't mind. There are different puzzle types as well, which can combine factors.

As for the fights themselves, I suppose it is relative, but I know what you mean. A hard fight might depend on how advanced your party is at a particular stage which I find a concept hard to judge. But I hate fighting wasps as they are quicker than me (just...) and weaken you quicker than anything else, and water elementals, while oitus and scorpions test skill and reflexes. And there is something strangely satisfying about slaughtering 4 trolins with a monster fireball.

This was probably no help to you whatsoever, I'll tell you more when I've played it!

[beowuuf]

to paulh: i mailed some suggestions but they might not apply
other thoughts - did you hex to get the grey lord? this would circumvent the level intergity, so the dungeon still expects dragons - i've done this and had clitched graphics and crashes

to amber: i prefer atmosphere (including good level lay outs) and fights with a few outstanding riddles to same ol' same ol' with puzzles - some of the 'get the four keys/objects to open the doors' style of levels did start to get repetitive combined over the two bennis dungeons

for example the first two levels of the prison had no puzzles but were good for the castle atmosphere

just my opinion

[Gambit37]

It's good that so many of you are interested in building dungeons for DM. I'm looking forward to the day when you switch your skills to RTC, which in a lot of ways is more flexible thatn the original DM. Then we can really have some fun...

[sucinum]

>to amber: i prefer atmosphere (including good level lay outs) and fights with a few outstanding riddles to same ol' same ol' with puzzles - some of the 'get the four keys/objects to open the doors' style of levels did start to get repetitive combined over the two bennis dungeons
yep, the 4 keys riddle isnt that great, but it was the only ways to make sure all of the level is played. i used this in the prison too, but only once, to make sure that the towers are played

[beowuuf]

I think Dmuting and RTC aren't mutually exclusive - there's somehting satisfying about creating a dungeon within the limits of DM and expanding it, but definitely for any new serious dungeon I'm going with RTC : )

Lol, whether I will ever do either is another matter, but I have plans gfor both

to amber: i definitely like puzzles and puzzling areas though - they tend to stick in my mind more, i treat combat like surgery, having to cut throguh to the next section!
only intelligent lay out with combat or surprises, like the areas in the fighter tower, stick out

[Sophia]

I found these forums and started playing with RTC recently... it's really neat that people are still quite interested in these old games.

I've started designing a little something in RTC... though some of what I've seen here puts it to shame already.

[beowuuf]

Don't worry, yours will be only the second RTC dungeon, and probably the only one released (gambit has his kid's dungeon, but I don't think has had the chance to release it with version changes)

[Gambit37]

Too right... It's been ready since the beginning of the year, but each new version of RTC means I've had to modify it again and again.... hopefully it'll be out soon!

[Wil]

I tried and download those new dungeons. It isn't easy. This very forum is hard to come by and the files are scattered among subjects, sometimes there is a correction below...
If there was a distinct section in the download area, maybe there would be more players. Well I know it isn't an easy problem.
I'm willing to try those dungeons. By which should I begin ?...