Escape from Order's Prison: HINTS & TIPS (Spoilers)

[Soaponarope]

Master,

Yes sending your game is good, or I could walk you through it in chat, seems I just missed you when I logged off before.


DM Player,

Spoiler

Ah yes, the yew staff too. Well the dispel spell is in the same zone as the other gold key, which is around this general area.

As for the pit,

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the table top is the only thing long enough, as I figure the tables take up the same amount of space. I know it looks weird, this is one spot I really need a new graphic to illustrate the makeshift balance beam bridge I was thinking of.

[DM_Player]

Soap,

Yes, I found the other key, opened the doors, got the

Spoiler

fire ball spell

and am now moving on.

[the master]

I have come to a pit on the ant men level. I have just killed one wizard and can see another wizard just around the corner on the other side of the pit. How do I get across the pit. Please don't tell me I need to use the table as I have chopped it up for firewood!

[Soaponarope]

Master,

This pit

Spoiler

cannot be crossed, you'll have to find a way another way around.

You can get confused reading other people's spoilers.

[the master]

Managed to progress a bit on this level, however I have found an area with these red flying things (not sure what they are called). There is a small button on the bottom of one wall which once pressed generates a whole room full of these things and I get overwhelmed with them. Could you tell me what this button does when I press it and is there anyway out past these things.

[Soaponarope]

Master,

This button

Spoiler

doesn't generate them,but rather lets them out. Look around and you'll find where they came from.

Tips for fighting them off-

Spoiler

This is one spot where it can help to be cornered. Make sure they can only come at you from one side, and use this choke point to cast poison spells. If you have any ven bombs, this is a great place to use them, as they will funnel into the lingering cloud and it kills them quickly. If you still can't handle it you can always use the looking glass.

Also there are others ways you can go, if fighting them is too hard for you right now.

[the master]

Soap

Spoiler

Okay fought them off and found a solid key. Went back and opened the door which turned out to be the other side of the pit I mentioned in an earlier post. Noticed an indentation on the wall which obviously needs a jewel/diamond shaped object. Haven't seen that anywhere. Also by the pit with the eyes I have found a room which needs a key. The key is actually situated around the corner from the room. Do I need access to that room? Also can you tell me what my next objective is cos I can't really see where I need to head to next.

[the master]

Not too keen on using the looking glass. I have had a few instances where I have used it and it has caused the program to crash. Don't know if anyone else had had this problem.

[lbk]

I believe if you

Spoiler

gaze into the looking glass it will cause the program to shut down.

[Soaponarope]

Spoiler

Also by the pit with the eyes I have found a room which needs a key. The key is actually situated around the corner from the room. Do I need access to that room? Also can you tell me what my next objective is cos I can't really see where I need to head to next.

I'm not exactly sure what you are referring to here. Do you mean

Spoiler

the locked portcullis past the worms? If so, this is where you need to go next, and you'll eventually find the gem your looking for this way.

[Soaponarope]

The looking glass is completely stable, though I guess I will change the

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function to just kill the party there seeing as how I now realize it could be mistaken as a game crash. When you gaze, it explains how the party is now forever trapped in the mirrors, thus ending the game while keeping them alive in stasis.

Spoiler

Anyways, your not suppose to use the gaze option, it is there only for story purposes, always use glance and it will return you to the start. With the many shortcuts to get back, this can be quite useful at times.

I hate how there is no load game or return to main menu options in the game. I was trying to find a way to do this besides just killing the party, but I don't know how.

[the master]

Spoiler

I'm not exactly sure what you are referring to here. Do you mean the locked portcullis past the worms? If so, this is where you need to go next, and you'll eventually find the gem your looking for this way.

Yes. But need a key and don't know where it is.

Anyways, your not suppose to use the gaze option -

Yes but how does the player know that. If its there he will try and use it.

[Soaponarope]

This key is the tricky to find key that

Spoiler

DM player asked about in his first question. In order to find it you will have to have a very good sense of where you are, despite changes in the dungeon. This is why I recommend leaving items you don't need strewn about in the more confusing areas. There are a couple of places in the game like this. If you still can't find it, I'll PM you the area.

Yes but how does the player know that. If its there he will try and use it.

Yes, it's assumed the player will do this once to see what happens. I meant suppose to as in there is no reason to do it. Characters will also comment on sensing a dangerous magic from the looking glass, meant to cause the player to save the game before messing with it.

[the master]

mmm I know there is one area like this on

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the antman level just prior to where I found all the red flying things

there is also a level upwards where there are a

Spoiler

a few green slimers

I can't think of any where else that sounds like where you are describing. So perhaps you could point me to the right area.

[the master]

Yes, it's assumed the player will do this once to see what happens. I meant suppose to as in there is no reason to do it. Characters will also comment on sensing a dangerous magic from the looking glass, meant to cause the player to save the game before messing with it.

Can't quite see the logic in that as with any other object you wouldn't save the game before using it. I think that if you are going to give an object an action then it should be one that is safe to use rather than crash you out of the game. Nevertheless apart from that I think its a very good game which is testing me (as you can see from all my queries) to the limits.

[Soaponarope]

mmm I know there is one area like this on

Spoiler

the antman level just prior to where I found all the red flying things

there is also a level upwards where there are a

Spoiler

a few green slimers

I can't think of any where else that sounds like where you are describing. So perhaps you could point me to the right area.

The key you want is located

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on the first floor down(this is the one where you found the slimes), though it is not near the slime room.

[Soaponarope]

Can't quite see the logic in that as with any other object you wouldn't save the game before using it. I think that if you are going to give an object an action then it should be one that is safe to use rather than crash you out of the game. Nevertheless apart from that I think its a very good game which is testing me (as you can see from all my queries) to the limits.

Considering the real(storywise) purpose for the item, I think having an unsafe option on it is warranted. It is logical that dangerous magical items can be fatal if used the wrong way. I also think it is more likely players would try to take a quick glance at it first, before gazing into it. Doing this will help explain what this object is and that taking a prolonged stare into it is a bad idea. With the additional warning when you pick it up, I didn't think players would find it frustrating; sorry if you did.

I think the problem here lies in my poor choice to exit the game. Don't say crash, it doesn't crash, it shows the ending scrolls and such. I can see how this may be annoying though. I did not want to kill the party as it describes them being locked away for eternity alive. However it is probably a better option that I will fix on my next release.

[DM_Player]

Soap,

Although I always save the game before climbing down pits,

Spoiler

Is the pit with the 4 fire ball shooters and the text 'give up now ...' a dead end/death trap?

Or is there a way out? It doesn't affect my play, but I was just wondering.

It looks like only myself, lbk and the master are playing this game right now. I hope more folks start playing, as it's an interesting and challenging game and you obviously put a tremendous amount of work into it.

Also, it shows that you don't need a lot of new graphics, wall sets, high res, etc. to have a good game. Using the original stuff is just as good and fun, at least to me.

[Soaponarope]

DM player,

This pit is the "exception" I spoke of in an earlier post.

With an exception much later on, you can't get stuck by going somewhere and even in that case it's because you haven't done something else yet. In this exception it's also made quite obvious your stuck.

Assuming you do not have the

Spoiler

grapple or teleport spell, yes your stuck at the moment. Hence, the death switch. Later you will need to go this way.

Yea, I was hoping to get more players. I was wondering if people were more interested in custom graphics, or if the description sounded too difficult.
Thanks for your kind words though.

[beowuuf]

Some people play these things silently in the background, some of us (like me) are just sadly busy IRL but are eager to at least start it as soon as we can! I've never managed to finish adamski's games nor Trantor's, and haven't started Zed's latest either!

At some point will have the chance! Not tonight though...already 9pm


So yeah, take heart - the comments here are more likely the vocal minority, and there are probably more people playing it - or will play it - silently, checking this thread for hints.

[DM_Player]

Soap,

There is a way out of the this pit now, but probably not quite what you intended.

Spoiler

If you bring the teleport mirror with you, then you can teleport back to the beginning before the shooters kill you.

. It doesn't really do anything, but you can get out of the pit this way.

[the master]

Lost, frustrated, starving, confused, given up.

[Soaponarope]

Beowuuf,

I hope this is the case. I would like to better judge the difficulty for future revisions.

DM player,

I am quite curious how you

Spoiler

still have the mirror at this point, as it is scripted to break once you enter the fork in the road. Did you drop it down a pit and retrieve it later from beneath? Any way you can find out of the pit is just fine, but my intention was that the mirror was gone after the first part of the game.

Master,

*sigh* Sorry to hear that.

If people think the dungeon is too difficult I will also release a toned down version in the future.

[the master]

If people think the dungeon is too difficult I will also release a toned down version in the future.

It could be the reason why it looks only a couple of us are playing. Usually there is a lot of banter and tips flying everywhere but that doesn't seem to be the case here. Perhaps you have made it too difficult. I normally finsih most of the dungeons but this one has me beat. It would be interesting to see the txt file sometime to see where I was going wrong.

[DM_Player]

Soap,

I don't think you can

Spoiler

drop the the mirror down a pit and retrieve it (or at least I don't see how to do this yet), but you can take it with you down some pits. You can do this only after you have turned off the electric floor on what is level 8 (if I've mapped the dungeon correctly that is). If you drop down pit 3,23,4, then pit 4,23,5, then pits 5,22,6 & 5,22,7 you end up on what was the electric floor. You can then go over to the trap pit (20,27,8?), enter it, click the shooter and use the mirror to teleport out.

Of course, none of this does me any good yet, but it can be done if need be when the time comes.

It is a difficult dungeon, but so far it's not impossible.

I do think that if you get a bit of a feel for how a designer builds their dungeon, that it helps you look for things and notice when strange things happen. For example, from what I've seen so far, it looks like you like to

Spoiler

have switches that activate things a fair distance away, have rotators in long hallways, have multiple monsters of the same kind with repeated generation, have multiple movable walls, sometimes activating and deactivating items to make it appear you've entered a different area of the dungeon

. These things do make a difficult dungeon, but it also makes it interesting.

[DM_Player]

If people think the dungeon is too difficult I will also release a toned down version in the future.

It could be the reason why it looks only a couple of us are playing. Usually there is a lot of banter and tips flying everywhere but that doesn't seem to be the case here. Perhaps you have made it too difficult. I normally finsih most of the dungeons but this one has me beat. It would be interesting to see the txt file sometime to see where I was going wrong.

master,

I really recommend mapping the dungeon as you play. I play on a widescreen monitor in a small window. I have the rtc.editor running at the same time in the background and I build the dungeon in it as I play. This does slow you down a bit, but it can really help in figuring our when rotations and teleports occur, what a button activates, when walls appear or disappear etc. For example,

Spoiler

I only found the fake wall hidden areas in the Hall of Champions from mapping the level

.

If you are familiar with the rtc.editor, then I could send you an txt file that has portions of the first 9 levels mapped, that's as far as I've been able to map so far (I've been teleported to other levels or areas but since I can't yet connect those areas to what I've mapped, my maps don't show those areas). The maps I make don't show every little detail. Just the wall-floor layout, some (but not all) wall items that can be used as landmarks, and teleporters and triggers that do something significant. I don't indicate where keys, scrolls, food, monsters and the like are found. Generally, I've found that once you've found something you aren't that interested in where you found it (although there are exceptions).

PM me if you want the .txt file and I'll try and send it to you (never done this, so I might fail .

Soap,

It's your dungeon, and if you'd rather not have this level of detail divulged just yet, then let me know.

By the way, I get almost as much enjoyment from mapping the dungeon and trying to figure out how the designer is accomplishing what they're doing as from playing the game itself. Speaking of which, just how do you

Spoiler

have the knights in the invisible wall level seem to be invisible when the character looks at them for awhile, but visible if the charter looks away?

[Soaponarope]

If people think the dungeon is too difficult I will also release a toned down version in the future.

It could be the reason why it looks only a couple of us are playing. Usually there is a lot of banter and tips flying everywhere but that doesn't seem to be the case here. Perhaps you have made it too difficult. I normally finsih most of the dungeons but this one has me beat. It would be interesting to see the txt file sometime to see where I was going wrong.

Well if this is the case, it is why I want people to mention it. If others have started the dungeon, found it too hard and quit, please tell me. I would think if many people were getting stuck there would be more questions. e.g. Conflux

[Soaponarope]

DM player,

I am fine with you sharing your maps, in fact I appreciate it. It is a nice way to provide detailed help, since I don't really want to release the txt file.(at least not for a good while)

I think those who can figure out how to keep the mirror deserve to keep it, even though I wasn't expecting it. Naturally, it has no needed use anymore, though can still be handy and there shouldn't be any problems in keeping it as I think I covered any issues with teleporting from any area in the dungeon.

As for your last question,

Spoiler

the knights here are actually a second version which have this ability built in. They toggle this invisibilty when engaging the player, based on the creature attack range. It's simple to do by adding a custom attack method on the knights ranged attack methods. They gain this ability to continue to be the tank monster, even as your party gets stronger so do they.

[lbk]

Soap,

I have been playing this dungeon for a while, but have not been very vocal. Just thought I would let you know that at least one other person is suffering through your prison.

[the master]

Thanks for the offer of txt files but I am just going to leave this one and move on. I think you really have to be a fanatic of this dungeon to do what DM player is doing. How many gamers would actually go to the extent of mapping out a dungeon like him. I think if it so difficult that you have to use a text editor to play it then you aren't really going to get the number of players interested that you probably thought you would. I like puzzles and plenty of them but I think that the puzzles in this game were a bit OTT coupled with the fact that whilst only 2 or 3 levels into the game you are struggling with loads of regeneration of difficult creatures without the fighter levels or wizard spells to defeat them then you are on a loser. As I said DM Player is an exception, he is probably 1 in 100 players that would go to the trouble of mapping a game like this. Its a pity but sorry on this ocassion not for me. Try looking at a few of Zeds dungeons which are not only quite difficult but actualy enjoyable to play. I can't emphasise the word enjoyable enough because although a dungeon should be quite difficult it should also be enjoyable and sorry I didn't find it in Escape from Orders Prison.