Dungeon Master Forum

Those are my ideas too, and I plan to pursue them if I find enough friends. Contact me in PM if interested.

I'd love browsing dungeon-master.com domain for something else than a simple forum...

I remember time when first come here after finish playing DM and search the same DM style custom dungeons, just with new levels. What i found very surprise me, even if they look classic like conflux, there was something too much. It is hard to understand how game can be "too good" but its fact.

If creator would make game with:
originality=0 (everything already seen somewhere)
atmosphere=3 (no custom gfx beside new portraits, no interesting sound, no music)
size=6 (several medium labirynths)
puzzles=4 (few puzzles but nothing innovate)

Then in result he made DM1 with new levels, and does it mean that its not worth to even look at this game? No, i think i would be hit, fun from play=10 for some players. Am not tell that creativity, challenge and quality is wrong, but its dont need to be only way leading to enjoyment.

Am probably not that person who could made another old school DM, especially because am inspired by many other RPG games played. My new will have strong survival part from Realms of Arkania, diverse world with freedom of actions from Might and Magic, and some details from Ishar, Elder Scrolls, even maybe W40K etc. I think each creator is inspired by more that one game, or maybe totally invent own vision of game, thats why each is so different.

Reasuming: judge modifications is wrong, everyone have right to freedom of creativity. It exist and make sense only in commercial games, because lead to improve them and lure customers to buy next generation of computers. This is all business stuff, we should dont care about that, and stay away form it.

Zyx wrote:Those are my ideas too, and I plan to pursue them if I find enough friends. Contact me in PM if interested.

just give the word Zyx, you know where my heart is at.

I am definitely not following this thread. What? aren't game creators the original players?? I wish I had the creative imagination and the artistic ability, I would create a game like Adamski. Alas, I am a lowly musician, a minstral, a tunesmith. NOT a mage or a wizard, a master of the arcane, as I would want. And on that note, can you tell me where I might be able to purchase an original boxed dungeon master?

E-bay would be your best bet

To the original question: a bit of both. I am not the best at complex mechanics, graphics but I do enjoy creating a game that flows, puzzles and areas to explore. A good dungeon to me is not alwys the most complex or graphically brilliant (though I think Tower of Champions is the best of all, but mainly due to the aspects I pointed out earlier).

My Bane recreation is minly for my Dad and I as it is our favourite game - I don't expect everyone here to enjoy it.

My dungeons are from the early days when we were stretching the DM engine and CSB. RTC throws some new toys into the arena. But never assume what you like others will.

Well I can safely say that when I wind up finishing what I'm tinkering around with, it won't be getting released to the masses on here just to get shit on. I can't do graphic editing on so on. Christ I struggle with stick figure drawings. So everything I do is with the old grey wallset. I don't care if it looks boring or old, it gives me the nostalgic kick I want, but it's still different from the original game.

Yup, I'll probably ask people to play test at times, but I don't really care if they think it's too easy and so on. I just want to make sure everything works because I know where everything is.

So essentially, I make these for myself and would probably show my family as we spent so many hours with this game, but ultimately, while I may be a hack, my wife thinks it's damn amazing what I'm doing and I get laid. What more do I need?

Twiggy wrote:while I may be a hack, my wife thinks it's damn amazing what I'm doing and I get laid. What more do I need?

Sir, I like your life.

Haha thanks

I'm livin the same kinda life here Twiggy... I do a good job when it comes to programming or something, the missus sees it, and I get some. I like the way the world turns sometimes

A very interesting old thread that tackles the main issue.
What is a good custom game ?
How to review and rate a custom game ?

Here is a mostly interesting article, which is amazingly applicable to Dungeon Master custom games.
Why Adventure Games Suck. And What We Can Do About It
By Ron Gilbert http://grumpygamer.com/2152210

A must reading to custom game designers.
AND
A framework for a "Suck grade" to be added in the custom game reviews.

I think a Quality of Puzzles rating would be better. You do good, challenging but solvable through deductive reasoning and the clues provided in game puzzles and you get a high rating, miss on any of these things and your rating will suffer. Of course, I'd spit this into 2 separate ratings, difficulty, and solve-ability. A low difficulty rating then doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing, it would just mean the puzzles are easy. That way gamers who don't like tough puzzles would know to avoid games with a high difficulty rating on puzzles, and gamers who need a challenge, but don't want to get frustrated with trial-and-error logic will know where to find honestly tough puzzles. Those designers who mess up would then also have better feedback as to how to improve their designs for the next project, or what needs to be revised.

Other rating systems could be things like playability (are there game breaking bugs, annoying UI mods that take away from gameplay?), compat difficulty (how many monsters are there to kill?, how tough are they?) or storyline (does the game have an interesting backstory? does a story unfold during gameplay? do all in-game events tie together in an overall objective?). I'm sure the community could come up with many other categories to rate custom dungeons on

If you've not seen it:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=31223

The catagories include enough spread to rate the combats, puzzles, etc over a few different axis. So difficulty, replayability craft and of course puzzles can all be used to give a full overview of the puzzles

Modding levels is not a new concept, it actually goes all the way back to DOOM, so game designers have had all that time to set in place ways to alert the average gameplayer to the existence of Custom Levels

I noticed straight away when I bought LOG that there were two new items in the menu, CUSTOM DUNGEON and DUNGEON EDITOR are right there

sadly when you go to CUSTOM DUNGEON of course, there's nothing to select - so what is your average gameplayer going to do then?

how about a psychological rating...

I always design for the player.

I want to make an interesting experience which rewards cleverness and risk taking, far more so than grinding! Players often want to be as powerful and in control as possible - finding ways to subvert that and provoke in-game anxiety is what I am looking to do

The big challenge for me is less innovative design and more how to tell a story within the limitations of the DM engine. Innovation is great for sure, but it can also lead to chasing after novelty. If you tell a good story, its a good story, period. I want to create characters that the player grows to love or hate and to deal with mythical themes that have intrigued mankind since the dawn of time. This is the great power fantasy, non?

I like everything to be involved, some things more than others. Hack and Slash only goes so far. To add to the hack and slash it is nice to make it so the player can't defeat any boss without having found the special item\weapon\quest and leaves the player wanting to find whatever it takes to beat the boss\puzzle. Puzzles themselves are good but often frustrating. A player should be given a chance to talk to an NPC to find out what needs to be done to complete the puzzle, this way they're not standing in the same place doing nothing for too long, that's when people give up, but if they know there is something that needs to be completed first that this would keep them interested. Many times I would be in a part of a puzzle and spent a couple hours trying to figure it out without going anywhere, it's boring. Oh how many times I died trying to do a puzzle that couldn't be done without some special item\action that needs to happen first. Dungeons often need a good story, one that can be referred to help solve it.

I'd like to say for the player, but honestly it's a bit of both for me.
I think I enjoy building as much as playing.
I get a kick out of deciding I want to do something, but having no initial idea of how to do it... then working out how and implementing it.
I'd love to have the great storytelling skills that someone like Adamski has, but alas I don't seem that way inclined when it comes to DM (which is weird, because I like to write music and poetry... so there must be a creative spark somewhere).

Perhaps if we conjured our minds a little more. Your idea of how to do it. I too am the same, love tinkering with stuff, seeing what it can do. Done a lot of strange things, trying the impossible does create interest. That is why I tackled the AI, I found that it is possible to do almost anything if you try hard enough and if you have the time. We all go through creative spurts but then get bogged down with other life experiences all the while the compassion to play with creation sits idle waiting for the moment. I long to work with a team, a coordinator is needed in my case. Completing set tasks but not to be overwhelmed with the complexities of having to do everything. Certainly done my share of learning the editor of RTC, learning multiple graphics programs, how it all works and yet somewhere in there I get lost. So much material to play with and yet without a coordinator nothing gets done. Keep thinking there must be someone out there that can help in this area. So far Claude has a story which I have read multiple times and he has created the characters for it. The AI part is mostly solved, could use a little bit of brainstorming on select problems, lots of graphics done, wallsets, stuff collected over the years. Most dungeoneers I think would love more dungeons to play. I hope someday soon that conjured minds can work together to finish all the unfinished dungeons that I suspect are out there.