Time Travelers

[cowsmanaut]

I figured this is one of those topics that can go a little wild, so i figured I'd put it in it's own thread before it gums up the "cool things I found..." thread

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread554765/pg1
this guy has a photo from vancouver where i live in the 1940's where there is a guy out of place.. as well as the ring watch I posted before.

then we have the one from Adamo about a woman on a cell phone
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/81155501/

even some less serious possibilities
http://cheezburger.com/funnychaos/lolz/View/2634653952

wikipedia has a huge set of info on the subject as well
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_travel

So the question is, do you think it's happened? or that it will happen in the future?

i must admit, it's fun to think about. I don't think either of the top links provide any conclusive proof. The Swiss have been making watches from the 1540's on.. and that only claims it to be 100 years old. I think it easily possible that a watch of that sort could be produced in the early 1900's since I think that was found in 2009, and that would put it at 1909 it was made. So not so far fetched.

The cell phone woman big problem is that she would have needed a cell tower and a friend to call .. the phone doesn't simply connect to another phone via magic.. it needs to go to a base tower which is then redirected to the correct device. It does look like she is holding something to her face but it could be just what was in her hand at the time and that she is perhaps trying to block out the light or sun that is coming from that direction.

The other fellow in the photo could be photoshoped.. It looks like the sun is at a slightly different angle based on the shaows on his face, and when doing a contrast check he doesn't quite match due to the amout of noise surrounding everyone but him. However as pointed out by a lot of people, he's not wearing or using anything that is not possible to find at that time. do a levels to brighten the image and you can see the camera which is rather old looking, and you can so via other images from that time that in the 1940s printed Tshirts existed as well. I've also seen captures from movies showing similar sun glasses..

so what do you think?

[Rasmus]

My main consern here is that all these photos or videos shows people with items that are from this century. That would mean that timetraveling is posible now, even if it is not known to us.
But if we where able to travel thru time now, then we should be able to travel thru time in the next century too.. But all these items are from this century or before, and we can all identify them. If timetravel would posible I would say that it would be a greater posiblity to find a something futuristic in the tomb instead of a ring watch, like 1000 years after our time laser gun or something like that.

The further we go in time the bigger will be the posibility for more people to travel thru time, so didn't they do it?

[Bit]

1.) I don't think it can happen at all because whatever you do, it ends in paradoxons. If at all, then to the future.
2.) Ignoring point 1 - If humans would be able to do that in future, why should they hide this ability? I do love Hawking's statement about time tourists - that's what I thought immediately too.

btw - I somehow do believe in 'faster than light'...
(p.s.: I believe Rasmus programming speed qualifies him to be from 2070 - so they sent him here without even knowing that. Two years later they spotted a paradoxon and they knew they have to slow him down - so they sent my notebook! )

[ian_scho]

I sometimes wonder if time travel is comparable to the nuclear bomb.

Once you've used it you spend the rest of civilisations history preferring to undo it.

[beowuuf]

If time travel is possible, I think it will be some meta-physcal thing. We cannot really connect the normal physics we have learned to quantum 'waveforms collapse but both things were possible until then' right now. It seems ot me time travel is already possible - we do it every day going forward. Whatever consciousness we possess is navigating the quantum dither underneath us somehow, and determining our reality. So technically if our consciousness is just managing to formalise going through an infinite amount of barely changed alternate universes, then surely our consciousness could actively drive through a series of of them or even learn to simply jump them.

So there you go, time travel will be possible when we learn to wish hard enough about it, or develop a machi9ne that can knock our consciousness on a quantum level around. No fear of paradoxes, because we're just moving through already existing 'slides' of a story we usually wouldn't see.

[Bit]

@Beo: It's interesting that you use the word 'wish'. In another thread we could discuss if 'to wish' has something to do with evolution - I do have some feelings about that.

[Jan]

Don't tell me, guys, that you've never travelled in time? Be serious! I travel in time almost every day. Everytime I go with a Czech train, I go back to 1950s. Last time when I was in a pub with my friends I must have travelled to the 15th century - I swear, really! And when I go to Russia - wow! you should see this! - because the USSR was the place where 'tomorrow' meant 'yesterday'. Or was it that 'yesterday' means 'tomorrow'? Definitely one of these!

[beowuuf]

[Adamo]

ok.. to be honest, I found those Belfast 1928-like vidoes a joke A lady would need a base transceiver station to speak a phone!

As for the time travelling it`s the physics itself that excludes that kind of things. To travel the time (backwards) you`d have to move faster than light (= that`d require INFINITE amount of energy to do so!). Not to mention it would distort the casuality! So I don`t think it would be possible (though I heard about few guys that were Faster Than Light - wrote a game in 2010 and moved back to the 80s to release it )

As for travelling forward, it`s always possible; each of us "travelling" time in some sense (that flows from Theory of Relativity): the time is actually passes slower - or faster - for different objects depending on its relative move and a gravity force ("time dilation").
For example:
=> a time for man travelling train moves a little slower than for his brother that stayed on a station,
=> a time for a man on 1st floor moves a little slower than for his brother on a top of the building (that`s because of a little differences of affection in gravity force between 1st and 35th floor).

These effects are unbelievably small here on earth, but effects on relativity are noticable in GPS for example. A person (or object) in a fast relative move - like spending whole his life flying planes like stewardess - would save 0.000(...a few zeros...)001 second in relative to her sister that stayed in a basement whole life.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_dilation

So it would be theoretically possible to visit earth in, say, year 2310 (without the return ticket).. You`d just have to move close enough the giantic field of gravity force or move with a speed that is close to 300000 km/s

[Roquen]

Faster-than-c signals, special relativity, and causality

[ian_scho]

(though I heard about few guys that were Faster Than Light - wrote a game in 2010 and moved back to the 80s to release it )

Wow dude. If I were to travel back to the eighties, had an affinity for old hardware, loved trawling through eab.abime.net and the like, then creating a company called FTL would be most humorous!

[Jan]

FTL

FTL for Future Time Losers?

[Bit]

or they'll Find The Limits.

[Rasmus]

We always move forward in time but that it is posible to slow time down. To be able to move backwards in time we would have to go faster in light, or as Adamo pointer out stand next to a gigantic gravity field.
But to make that work we would have to be inside a black hole and not beeing crushed. One funny thing about falling into a black hole is that before falling thru the event horizon, the person that falls into it will see the whole unvierse lifetime pass by until it is no more (depending on the universe future outcom).. So it works somwhat in the other direction, because the viewer of the person falling into to the black hole will see him not ageing or if he has passed the speed of light, get younger. It is weird.. Please tell me if I have mixed anything up
One more thing, to be able to pass the speed of light with a spaceship for example would demand a endless amount of energy because the spaceship would become endlessly massive..

I would say that I am not that quick on rejecting the posibility of timetraveling because this is just the physics that fit the theory of relativity, and at some point in the future I think it will falsified and replaced with some other theory that will explain things that the theory of relativity can't. Scientists are still looking for a sulotion to combine the theory of relativity with the quantum world to be able to have one unified theory. One need for a unified theory are because they can't explain how black holes works. They have just made up a name like singularity but still have no idea what it accually means.. When something really massive are in a very small space both the theory of relativity and quantum physics come in to play.. And they are not compatible with eachother!

Therefore some time in the future I think timetraveling will be posible in one way or another, just sending data from a transmitter to another transmiter back time would also be timetraveling, even if it isn't for humans..

[Zyx]

Can we travel through text? If you read again this text, will its meaning change? (Edited by Clone2).
----

Let's suppose that time travelers exist. This implicates that future is not virtual, but already exist somewhere, enough to affect us, independently of our knowledge of it. (by memorizing past and predicting future they acquire some substance capable of affecting our choices, but that's another sort of time travel and causality violation).
Do you think there is only one future? Then by going back to past and making it present, there would be two time lines, the future that the time traveler left, and the new time line from the past with which he's interacting. Though arguably the old future, though continuing to have its independent time, would be dead for the time traveler.
So there is not one future, but several. Each of one with its own path leading from now to them, meaning there are several pasts too.
Maybe our present is just navigating through this limitless possibilities, each time choosing one of the possible future, abandoning the other parallel worlds as stories that could have been but never were.
But if time travel is possible, then at least of the futures is real. Since we have several futures, I daresay all of them share some of the stuff that made one of them real enough to permit time travel and affect our time line (past or present).
If time travel exists, then past, present and future have no absolute meaning. There are only an endless amount of time threads; they diverge permanently, any of their possible combination yields a real new time line , though we may say that some states are indistinguishable of others, and they would form a statistical mainstream, following the entropic principle. You can jump to any point of any moment of any thread, the connection between all those time line is like the connection between branches of a tree. The less nodes you have to cross to attain a parallel world, the more it is near, likewise, understandable.

But it would be like bridging, linking somehow the point we left from our time line to the point we reached in the other time line, because information could be exchanged. By the way, those "time travelers proofs" could rather be "information travelers proofs": if authentic, we're just seeing anachronistic technology here, which could be arguably constructed if the knowledge was sent.

An analogy:
Imagine that we are Sims on a PC. Millions of PC are running other Sims simulation. Our time lines are isolated from the other, through some exchange of information could be allowed by the software. Our running time can be paused, slowed, accelerated by an administrator (but it's the possibility that counts, not the fact that I suppose an administrator to ease the analogy). We could be restored to a previous backup, or jumped to a new state like a miracle. And we would be oblivious to the time line of the real world where our computer is. The concepts of time of the Sims would be restricted to the phenomenon they are entrapped to. And should they start hunting for a bug in their universe, they should think of the consequences.

Back to our world: if future already exists outside our heads, where/when is it? Is there some sort of transcendental space-time where every potential is real? What contains all the parallel worlds? What kind of space and what kind of time would allow a multiverse to exists, with lesser time and space in each sub-world?

Edit from 3: the following is missing text from the original post. We are still studying what happened.

Another interpretation, though, of the time travel proofs goes back to consciousness: some possibilities are so near, so probable, so mainstream, that some seers would see things as they are and as they are becoming: their educated guess (educated because they really weigh the importance and impact of each single things for the near future) would allow them to glimpse at what is coming: and they would use this quasi information, this quasi tachyonic bits, to react.

See where we come from. See it. Live it in your head, almost hallucinating, recreating it, and you will be almost time traveling by allowing this past to be almost present. Once you see it, you can testify. The movie Pride and Prejudice is a good example of what would be call witchcraft by someone not used to movies.
Same for the future. Don't imagine arbitrarily, but unroll the current thread of our world, like a mental simulation, and though you can make mistake, in certain cases you can predict with great accuracy. And testify, or use this information, or help the becoming of what you saw, or avoid it.
We all do these operation on very instinctive and short term levels. But we acquired a sense of time, like a rudimentary eye, that allows in principle to explore further, with help of machines, science, communication, art, culture.
If future is explored enough, we would be interacting with them, making their potential state something real enough to change our own course of actions. If past is explored enough, we can identify the recurrent causes that are directing our self or our world, and we could start thinking and acting about it, thus mastering it in the end.
If we had this extremely well developed sense and analysis of past and future, we would then consider our present as an island in time: past would not be an inexorable cause anymore, future would not be an inexorable consequence anymore. I'm not saying that we can ignore them, on the contrary. We must understand the causes and consequences of each single thing to master our destiny, otherwise we'll screw it up and we'd better limit our self to the scope we understand well enough.


So, if time is really like an island for us, if time only applies to information (and energy and matter are information, at their simplest level) but not entirely to the processes that we are, then we can recruit everyone and everything that is in our range to participate, knowingly or not, in this emancipating adventure. The story/place of Earth is of a spatial ship in a stellar ocean. We have some freedom to navigate and to make the story we wish. The current direction is bad, by the way, we're sinking. But we don't have to.
If this is what time is, how can we interpret the "proofs" of time traveling of this thread?
(Note from the future: this part will be continued by a clone. Reed more to understand, and ignore in the meanwhile).

So, let's keep dreaming aloud: if time travel were accessible to you, what would you do?


Me, past the exploration and experimentation, I would emancipate all the people of all the worlds that would lead their destiny to something better than destruction. Before endangering anyone or putting them before such a responsability, I would start by myself. I would send a message to my younger self, just 5mn ago would be enough for a start, explaining the reality of time travel, proving that I am he, but I would make it discreetly, when I am alone, and in a way that only myself would understand. I remember that whatever I need to do 5mn in the past, I must prepare it now so that in 5mn I am ready to do it. My past self would live something that I didn't, and we would be inexorably different, the violation of causality would have created two Zyx. One would continue cloning myself, with frequent reports to our growing community, the other would create a net to help us communicate through space and time. Once we're a billion and growing, we would start investigating and exploring to make sure there is no danger, and recruit a few other people of complete trust. Alright, 4mn left, I have to prepare now.


But if we can travel, so can any other intelligent extraterrestrial species, and maybe it's a private territory (or weapon) and they would be hunting any newcomers as dangerous intruders in their monopoly. Even if they're fairer than that and just watch and police this technology, I must say that mankind doesn't look like a wise species to foreigners.
(this last part is from the old self, not the future one, so forgive the discontinuity in thought).

Edit by Zyx: spelling.

[Chaos-Shaman]

hmmm, a moment is a moment, you can't turn back the clock just as you can't unburn a candle but you can slow time. Some scientists believe in multiple time lines, that's what is says in the 4000 more things you should know book, but i'm not sure I should know that. Maybe i'm behind the times, heh.

[ian_scho]

Therefore some time in the future I think timetraveling will be posible in one way or another, just sending data from a transmitter to another transmiter back time would also be timetraveling, even if it isn't for humans..

I was going to say the same about consciousness, but this seems far more reasoned and better thought out!

[Rasmus]

I found some formulas from my physics class.. I found these extremly interesting because they explains what will happen if a objects with mass travel as fast a lightspeed, and why it can't travel faster..
This formula shows how much a object weight will be (m2) if the object had a starting weight of (m1).

m2 = m1 / √ (1 – (v^2 / c^2))
So: v = speed, c = lightspeed, m1 = starting mass, m2 = mass when reched the speed (v) with the starting mass (m1).
Speed of light (c) = 299 792 458 m/s.

Making a stone of 1 kg reach a speed of 99% of lightspeed will result in:
m2 = 1,0 / √ (1 - (296 794 533 ^ 2 / 299 792 458 ^ 2)) = A stone with the mass 7,09 kg.

Making a stone of 1 kg reach a speed of 99,99% of lightspeed will result in:
m2 = 1,0 / √ (1 - (299 762 479 ^ 2 / 299 792 458 ^ 2)) = A stone with the mass 70,71 kg.

But what if we reach a speed equal to lightspeed then?
m2 = 1,0 / √ (1 - (299 792 458 ^ 2 / 299 792 458 ^ 2)) = 1,0 / √ (1 - 1) = 1,0 / 0,0 = Endless mass!!

This formula also work for how time is relative to the traveler and the observer.. At 99,99% lightspeed the observer can look at a clock at travelers hand and see that it goes 70,71 times slower than the clock at the observers hand. Also the traveler will get streched out and look 70,71 times longer at the direction in which he is traveling..

So here is a funny fact, what if the traveler reaches speed of light?
Remember that before he is able to reach the speed of light everything around him that are standing still relative to his startingpoint will have a time that moves faster and faster.
- So the traveler can't really reach the speed of light without letting a infinitive of time pass by around him..
- And if and when he ever will reach the speed of light he will be so massive that the whole universe collected mass would be infintive low relative to the travelers mass..
- Also he will get streched out to such a infinitive that he will be everywhere at once.

An electron that have a mass of 9 * 10^-31 kg will also behaive in the same way..

Here comes some effects of the above calculations (may be incorrect ):
As a observer we can see something that go faster and faster will have a clock that moves slower and slower, so if he reaches more than the speed of light his clock should move backwards instead. The biggest problem here is that something with a mass can never reach the speed of light by accelerating without taking a eternity relative to observer (that in fact want him to go back in time, not forward).
So what is needed here is a spaceship that can move from 0 to above the speed of light by "jumping" to this speed instead of accelerating.

Imagen standing on the pole star (that is about 400 lightyears away) and having a telescope in the hand looking at earth. Then we can see what happened on earth 400 years ago.. Now imagen having a spaceship that can "jump" this distance without accelerating at all. Then we would be able to travel 400 years back in time.
That is why a wormhole would come in handy
But a wormhole that would fit a standard size human can only be created if we had a machine that was powerfull enough to take the size of Jupiter and compress it into a black hole.. But even then it would be imposible to get thru without getting ripped apart..

The answrr would maybe be to send massless particles like photons.. But the problem here is that because they are massless they are forced to travel in the speed of light.
Here is where I present a theory that I am having
So then we may need a particle with negative mass. An antiparticle.
A particle with negative mass will be forced to travel backwards in time, and as a observer they will look at is as a normal particle, but infact when it is moving backwards in time it will seem to have a normal mass and a straight movement but infact it is all negative..
These are created in nature all the time, even if they get aniliated at almost the same moment as they are created, this is because everytime a antiparticle is created from nothing a normal particle is also created from nothing, and when they hit eachother they dissapere again.
But if it is posible to isolate the antiparticles with a magnetic feild I think it would be possible to send information in form of these backwards in time..

Sorry about the essay, but I find this incredibly interesting and can keep talking about it for hours
I can present more of my theories if anyone is interested

[Bit]

But so far all theories failed to be complete linear, finally there's always a 'grey zone' of exception.
My belief is, that in the end, the big picture will be a very simple one, still, it's not found yet.

p.s.: I doubt Hawking's thought saying that there will be a time that the coffee cup will jump back to the table.
I got also problems to imagine that all is already present - past and future - and also that it may loop-
But - let's think about the possibility of a time travel to the past, where someone shoots his father before he is born and creates a paradoxon. Now, there's surely something with a extremely high, maybe endless, frequency. Which area could that affect? Wouldn't it be just some kind of local effect (bigger or smaller)? Just another kind of singularity - let's say a 'white hole'. After all - humans can still do just things that nature already can do (erm - not including the fact that we are nature...). So - that 'white hole' also should exist somewhere. Maybe it's black too...

[Sophia]

You so crazy.

[Bit]

or just living in the wrong time

[cowsmanaut]

funny thing, but perception of time is one of the triggers in your brain that shuts down when you sleep. I know this because I have a sleeping disorder where certain switches don't turn back on when I wake up. Sometimes it's mobility, sometimes touch, other times it's... well time. It's hereditary and related to both sleepwalking and narcolepsy. They are all symptoms of the same disorder, but some walk when they sleep, others pass out when walking.. and some of us don't wake up correctly.

Anyway, when I happen to wake up without my time perception, it's the oddest sensation. I gain information at the fastest possible speed my brain can absorb it, however, nothing is delivering information as fast as that so it gives the feeling as if everything is VERY slow. They unfortunate part, is that I can not move fast enough to keep up either. There in lies the danger, because a car coming down the street appears to be moving at a walking pace and if I were to try to step out in front of it, I'd be crushed, since I wouldn't be able to move fast enough. As a result I tend to wait for lights to change or not cross the road if I go out. The switch in my brain kicks in eventually.. but has stayed off for up to an hour. It's kind of cool, but also a bit freaky. though not as scary as when it's mobility.. that one they call sleep paralysis. You can kind of groan, but you can't move.. and you're awake. Someone needs to shake me so I snap out of it. The sense of touch only comes back after a long time, or if I shock myself with a cold bath.. has to be very cold.

So, there you have it, you can experience the slowing of time, if you could control that switch. If you ever saw Startrek Inception.. they have the "live in the moment" thing.. makes me wonder if one of the writers experiences that disorder.. It's not quite that extreme where things come to a stop.. but slow all the same. I think that the comments about how slow a day seems could be a related event.

oh, also, there are those who seem to be able to predict future events. Documented even. I know within my own family they have not seen future events, but have experienced a sudden need to call someone in the family at the moments of hight stress for that person.. my mother for example suddenly had a need to call my aunt, only moments after she learned she had cancer. It's only for family members though.. never been anything else. So it's possible we're also able to perceive more on a more subtle level than we can fully aknowledge.. perhaps the threads of future and past..

[Gambit37]

I know within my own family they have not seen future events, but have experienced a sudden need to call someone in the family at the moments of hight stress for that person.. my mother for example suddenly had a need to call my aunt, only moments after she learned she had cancer.

I've experienced this too. A few years back I had a very strange feeling that something was wrong with one of my sisters -- just minutes later I received a phone call telling me that she was in hospital and might die of internal bleeding. The weird thing is that she'd actually been taken in 2 days before and I didn't know anything about it; it was only when her condition had become possibly life threatening that I experienced the strange "something's wrong" sensation.

It was very weird and I've never experienced anything like that since. And I'm pleased to say that my sister survived and is doing fine. Certainly spooky though and it reinforced my belief that there are things going on in the world that we can't reasonably explain with our current knowledge. And I like that.

[Bit]

As far a I know they do have a serious part at the University of Freiburg that handles parapsychologics. Not that they really believe in ghosts, but they study why people who are not crazy seriously tell such stories.
And hey - in a world where a mathematician in the first year of studies can surely calculate that the distance of the opposite corners of a n-dimensional cube with a sidelength of 1 is squareroot(n), there are surely some surprises ahead.
And each answer forces a dozen new questions...
Rolling a dice with 6 sides for the seventh time causes a repeated number for sure. What makes your ego? If that combination isn't too complex, in an endless-time-universe there's a good chance that this will repeat too - in the meantime you're dead - so - poff... - welcome back

[Zyx]

How many simulations of this very moment will be running in the next million years of post-humanity? What are our chances that we are the original ones?

My mother once had a nightmare that awoke her boyfriend. She was agitated and talking aloud, like to someone in the room. The boyfriend awoke her. She told him she had been seeing a small silhouette in the room, waving his hands, trying to tell something. The silhouette was familiar but she wouldn't recognize it. By the morning, she learned that the stepfather of her twin sister died that nigh at the hospital. He was of a small stature. My mother never had such nightmares before or after.

A friend in Argentina has horses in the country but lives in town 60km afar. She have a strong bond with horses, like one does with persons. She awoke one night with the certainty that something was wrong with their horses, she even told his husband about her urgent feeling. On the morning, the horse keeper came to town and knocked to their door: the horses were stolen during the night. (this friend had at least a dozen of other apparently paranormal events in her life, with testifiers: telepathy, prescience, out of the body experiences and the likes. She's struggling not to become a "magic believer" - she's running a juridic business, she needs a very cool realistic head - but...).

Personally, I never experienced anything that I could not explain by rational means, even if alternative paranormal explanations were also possible.

A small digression: I think the general relativity implicates that everything is a point isolated in time and space. There is no simultaneous connection, nowhere, except maybe quantic entanglement if I ever understand it, but I'm sticking with Einstein here. The unity, structure or connection that we perceive in us or in object is a deduction, a reconstruction or a construction through interacting physical or mental processes. When you see an image, what is happening is that millions of photoreceptors are being activated, each one in its own isolated time frame, but due to the underlying structures of both the image and the retina, the activations are happening with short space-time distances, which allows mutual interactions with a lag too small to be significative: thus the nervous impulses can interact in a way not too distant from the underlying structure of the image and compose or recompose some traits of that image structure.

To illustrate the lag that I'm talking about: if our eye were the size of a galaxy, there would be a difference of dozen of thousands of years between a photoreceptor from a corner and another, so even if we received the image "simultaneously", there would be no centralizing place that could perceive the state of each photoreceptor simultaneously.
If the image were big as a galaxy, there would be no unified place from where to perceive simultaneously the state of each of its pixel. Each pixel, having a different distance from us, would have a different age when reaching us.
If the image were one billion light-year away, we would feel the lag too, and react to something that isn't here anymore.

Imagine seeing a movie the size of a galaxy with an eye the size of a galaxy from a hugely long distance: each star of our eye-galaxy would receive a different pixel and we would have to communicate with each star to know what they received, but each star would have a different lag. Each pixel of the image would come from a different epoch too. And we would still be watching the first season while the millionth season is being emitted. This would require a specific structure for handling our information gathering, adapted to the physical structures conditioning our perception (the space-time coordinates of the movie and of our screen - here, the stars). We would need to memorize, predict and reconstruct the images to have a chance to understand something.
With the tiny distances of our sublunary world, the same problem exist, but is simple enough that our brain has the structures to process the image correctly.

So I'm very surprised when people are testifying about perceptions that seem to be of some simultaneity of space-time, like prescience of a non rationally predictable thing. It's make me think of entanglement or tachyon.
But I'm very skeptical by nature, which is maybe some kind of cowardliness rather than prudence: in doubt, I prefer a small but sure world rather than being mentally lost. Isn't that well wishing?

@Cows: what you're telling about your condition is impressive. Though I understand the troubles it can cause you, it is also an exceptional opportunity to study altered states of consciousness and understand better the mind, and through it, the world.

[Chaos-Shaman]

well, maybe life is but a dream. had doubts about time travel until experimentation with dimethltriptamine DMT. have no doubts any more. the only way to know is to try it for yourself and see if i'm kidding, hehehehe, but only the extremly curious should even attempt such a thing. life has changed ever since, no need to fear death. that's all i can tell you about it without stepping on the spirits, i can tell you that i'm not a liar, and i'm not making it up. spent years researching it.

[cowsmanaut]

Zyx, I think more people experience my time effect more than they care to aknowledge. Perception is an ever changing thing for us as humans. We can exhibit a lot of subconscious control over our body and our environment through our body. A person understress could feel as though the room had gotten very hot or very cold. Their body reaction to that could be that it begins to produce more heat itself. Feelings of anxiety could cause others who see it to also feel anxious thus affecting their environment, yet they may not even outwardly show it.

Humans see more than the aknowledge too. The fact that I could tell I was getting info as fast as I could, suggests that we get a lot more info at any given time than we realize. People having a feeling that a situation is off, or the feeling that someone is behind them (and is) or that a person is staring or focused on them. Sight, touch, hearing, smell, taste, time, and all of it more sensitive than perhaps we give them credit for. Our bodies run on electrical impulse.. what if focusing on someone created some kind of electrical reaction? Perhaps Tesla could have run with that one.. but I have no idea.

My point is, analyze your responses to stimuli.. are you using your senses to their full extent? Or are you running on early programming based on how you have gained information in the past? Like the Elephant who is tied with a chain at the start of his life at the circus, but eventually is held only by thin rope.. he never tests the rope, because as far as he understands, it's a chain. Listen to some languages and not their varying speeds of delivery. There are languages where words are delivered as fast as they can be uttered, and more than that, when they learn a new language they they try to speak that at the same speed as their own language. Why is it they process that information that fast but we do not?.. training. How about athletes who seem to capture a moment in time to swing a bat or catch a ball.. make a split second decision? could they also be tapping into that perception aspect? "slowing time"? People who block out pain (or other sensations like sour lemons or the spicy of hot peppers) as if it was nothing more than a minor thing. Yet others who can sense the lightest of a breeze or the slightest tremor under them. People who detect the subtle smell, or the hint of a flavor in a wine or sauce.. and it's not as if it didn't exist, it did/does.. just that the average person may unconciously ignore that stimuli..

If time is only perception, then perhaps one could go back in time in mind alone? What about the whole idea of deja vu, past lives or genetic memory.. perhaps it's not just a genetic marker, perhaps it's a perception thing..? who knows.. just throwing out random thoughs.

[Zyx]

Cows, I understand your words perfectly, and I have experienced everything you said. Or rather, the same words would be used to describe my experiences, but I'm certain that the channels were at least a little different. And yet, under the apparent intersubjectivity of our words hiding in fact unique and distinct experiences, it would seem that we can scientifically find objective generalities, enough to hypothesize and search for laws. I'm not surprised by what you said. I'm amazed that you experience such diversity of conscious states on a regular basis. I personally have to actively shake my mind if I want to keep it young and fresh. I have a strong psycho-sclerosis tendency, like most adults I know, and it takes all my courage, energy, intelligence, and curiosity to put it temporarily in check.
As for traveling in mental time with your mind, there is no physical law forbidding it. It's already happening on a primitive level with memory and prediction (note by the way that genes are also a statistical memory of what worked and what not, and thus, a prediction of what probably will and what won't).
It's only a technical problem. Mental training, talent of invocation, memory, imagination, immersiveness, intuitive perception, creativeness, etc. are the kind of skills that allow the mind at large to "hallucinate" things as well and deeply as if they were real. The trick at that point, I think, is then knowing how this hallucination relates to our original reality: how it would affect it or react to it, and what is presently lacking to make it real. We don't need to recreate all the details: the principles are good enough if they can be put into an avatar, if we find a way to incarnate them. Do you understand what I am saying? Though limitedly, we can visualize things from parallel universes and make our own universe move towards them or away from them. That's space-time navigating in my book. And we're doing it all the time, seven billions of us.

Chaos-Shaman, did you try ayahuasca or other? Did you have experiences similar to what McKenna described? Though not a consumer, I'm investigating too. I don't know if everybody in this forum would feel comfortable with a conversation about psychonautism. If not, we could continue by PM. I don't know either if you're willing to expose your experiences and beliefs publicly. But I'd like to ask more about your experiences.

[Chaos-Shaman]

* Chaos-Shaman, did you try ayahuasca or other? Did you have experiences similar to what McKenna described? Though not a consumer, I'm investigating too. I don't know if everybody in this forum would feel comfortable with a conversation about psychonautism. If not, we could continue by PM. I don't know either if you're willing to expose your experiences and beliefs publicly. But I'd like to ask more about your experiences.*

- I'm impressed with the curiousity. I started a quest starting at the year 2000. I spent years on the internet, bought all sorts of books, grew many of the plants, made quite a few extracts, one of them DMT, psychotria veridis, bought many plant extracts and barks, learned chemistry, alchemy to work with the substances, and found out for myself if there was truth into the pineal gland story. It is all true for me, what I've been through there is no words for it. One in ten people do not get the affects, which really astounds me, for I have seen this with my own eyes. It is not like LSD, although it has its own properies, and can also take you there, where ever your there may be. I made my own aya and it is powerful only in the right setting, it is not like smoking a .05 gram of DMT because you will meet your spirit, and you'll know what feels like to die. Time Travel is nothing more than what you make it out to be. When I dream, I no longer am running from the scary dinosaurs like when a kid, I fly all around the place, it's a great feeling. DMT opened my dreams, because before that, I never had anything that I could remember, and the ones that I did remember were usualy scary only. It's too hard to explain what DMT does, but it's a part of your biochemical makeup. Mckenna is a linguistic freak. He could probably tell me a whole story and I'd not understand a word he said, but still feel it. To bad he died young of brain cancer. Mckenna made a mistake though, he should of left out the 2012 story. It tarnished his appearance, like it does to anybody who uses it. I'm not a believer in 2012, but I am very facinated with it. How humans knew this stuff, especialy ones that did not even use the wheel. I figure let time tell, I'll be around to watch the sky light up with energy that year, like it always does every 11 years, but this one could be spectacular, we'll see. If anyone has not noticed yet, the earth has had lots of excitement the past little while, so who knows what's in store.

[Bit]

Humans aren't able to solve the problems in the 'main' universe.
Feeding bodies whose brains are in other universes won't make that better.