Spell Effect Troubles

[Soaponarope]

I cannot figure out how to have new spell effects that require relays only hit when the spell actually hits the party(thus making them dodgable).

I have a made a spell on one of my boss monsters that drains health,stamina and mana all at once, and this is easy to do as a simple attack method, but I want it in true spell form.

There doesn't seem to be a way to create a new spell without previous effects(though I got around this by using a pull clone which has no effect on the party) and there is no way to time the convert like with items.

I'm just not sure how the spells are all coded and what can be done to get around limitations. How do I make it "on hit" instead of "on cast"?

[beowuuf]

Create a short lived missile that bursts into a damage tile or expires to nothing?

[Soaponarope]

I don't understand. If I went the missile route, I could activate my relay on break, and that works fine. I want to change spell effect though.

[Soaponarope]

Actually upon further testing, I realized trying to fake a spell effect and going the missile route doesn't work with relays either. This is because upon hitting something like a wall, the on break action will still trigger the relay to affect the party.

Is it just impossible to dodge a relay effect?

It seems any new spell effect must automatically work, which is a rather large limitation. Has no one experimented with this?

I read Sophia's post on Deconstruction of spell mechanics and am wondering if editing spells was just something GG never got around to, and thus creating new offensive spells really just can't be done?

Having a throw attack break into a damage tile on swap with a short timer should kind of work, though only for one effect. But how do you make the tile expire without the use of a relay anyway?

[Gambit37]

There's a lot of stuff that's "nearly there but not quite" in RTC, I think new offensive spells is the big one. If Lord_Bones returns, you might ask him how he's done things like this as he has a whole new spell system worked out, but from what I gather it's.... complex.

[beowuuf]

Is there no way to check through a relay where in a dungeon the spell effect triggered? Can't you interrupt if the effect is triggered on a square not the party square?

[Soaponarope]

Is there no way to check through a relay where in a dungeon the spell effect triggered? Can't you interrupt if the effect is triggered on a square not the party square?

If there is a way I have no idea how to do it. The parameters are very confusing to me, and never seem to work correctly. Can you please explain how?

[beowuuf]

I'm afraid I haven't played with it enough, though I was sure there were triggers for both sending and checking if an effect was generated from the party square, infront of the party, around the party, etc

Will look into it tomorrow if I don't end up going to work

[Lord_BoNes]

There's a lot of stuff that's "nearly there but not quite" in RTC, I think new offensive spells is the big one. If Lord_Bones returns, you might ask him how he's done things like this as he has a whole new spell system worked out, but from what I gather it's.... complex.

DUDE! I couldn't help but laugh when I read this.... LOL. Complex doesn't do it justice

Now, the topic at hand. Creating spell effects that trigger only on impact with the party....
Create 3 relays, one that checks if TRIGGERING/X = PARTY/X... one that checks Y and the last one checking Z.
Make them trigger each other in a line (X triggers Y, Y triggers Z, Z triggers your desired effect).
By triggering them in a line, it is effectively a conditional AND statement (ie: IF "TRIGGERING/X = PARTY/X" AND "TRIGGERING/Y = PARTY/Y" AND "TRIGGERING/Z = PARTY/Z" THEN....)

I hope this makes sense to you, I seem to have a little difficulty in actually explaining my mechanics.

[Gambit37]

I find your explanations hard to understand because you mix stuff up and don't explicitly refer to items in an easily identifiable way. For example, don't mix labels -- your step 2 says "X Triggers Y" when you've used a different meaning for X,Y,Z in the previous step. That's just confusing, What you really mean is "Relay 1 triggers relay 2".

If you could be more explicit in your explanations, and do them with numbered steps, it would make comprehension much easier.

Welcome back, by the way!

[Lord_BoNes]

Welcome back, by the way!

LOL. Happy to be back. And as for explaining things, it's always been my weakness.... I can do really cool stuff myself, but telling someone else how to do it.... that's the true challenge

[Gambit37]

Right. I'm guessing you're a programmer, then!

[Lord_BoNes]

LOL. Yup!

[Soaponarope]

I understand they trigger each other into a condition, I just never figured out how to use the x,y,z triggering conditions. So they are all needed to give an exact position of the party then?

It kind of makes sense to me then, and I'll try it out.

As for myself, I'm not a programmer at all, just a dreamer who is occasionally focused and persistent.

So I do work better visually, which is why RTC appealed to me.

[Soaponarope]

I just tried to do this, and can't get the spell effect to trigger at all now than I added the x,y,z conditions. I think I know why this is.

It's still a problem of their being no way to check time wise when the party would be struck. My relays check to see if it's hitting the party when the spell is cast, but at that time it's not near the party. Then if it does hit the party, the relay is done and has no effect.

I would have to make it constantly check for the party's location by looping it, but that would cause a lot more issues.

I hope you understand what I mean as this is very difficult to explain as well.

[Lord_BoNes]

Clone a misc object that triggers a relay "on break". From this relay target:
RELAY 1 = checks if triggering/x equals party/x... if so, targets only RELAY 2
RELAY 2 = checks if triggering/y equals party/y... if so, targets only RELAY 3
RELAY 3 = checks if triggering/z equals party/z... if so, trigger effect....

Eg: RELAY 3 targets a WALLITEM_ACTION(BOOST_PARTY_BY_OBJECT, object 1 set as FLASK_POTION_VI, strength 25) when the cloned object hits ANYTHING solid (monsters, party, trees, etc.) it'll fire RELAY 1, which, if the object is on the party's square, gives you a strength 25 VI_POTION.

The way this works: RELAY 1 fires, only if x IS equal, does the chain continue onto RELAY 2... if RELAY 2 meets the conditions, then the chain continues, otherwise, it cans itself... if any part of the chain is broken, then it won't get to the end (won't fire the final effect). Building chains of relays is how I do all my coolest FX, so it's definately a skill worth picking up.

[Soaponarope]

I completely understand the mechanics behind this and you have explained it well, though I still cannot get this to work. I even did the exact same thing as in your example and it won't work, I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

I have tried doing this through a spell effect method like I originally wanted, through a item on break effect, and also tried changing the results to match your example. None of these ways work for me.

Here is how I have it set up for the item on break method, since that is what you referred to.


-A monster uses a custom attack method called triple drain.

-Triple drain attack method it set to "action create new item in air" (custom item "unholy bolt") for the item on break method.

-The unholy bolt item is set up to be a break on hit item with my relay activating on break.

ADD MISSILE_UNHOLY_BOLT CLONES=(MISSILE_ARROW) NAME=(UNHOLY BOLT) ICONS=(BITMAP_ICON_DUNGEON_SPELL_ZO_DM2,NULL) BITMAPS=(DUNGEON:BITMAP_SPELL_ZO_DM2,INVENTORY_VIEW:NULL) METHODS=(NULL,NULL,NULL) SOUNDS=(HIT:NULL) CONVERT_BREAK=(NEW_OBJECT:DUNGEON_CLOUD_ZO_DM2,SOUND:SOUND_HIT_SPECTRE,ACTION:ACTION_OBJECT_ACTIVATE,ACTION_OBJECT1:WALLITEM_RELAY_TRIPLE_DRAIN,
ACTION_OBJECT2:NULL,ACTION_STRENGTH:0) PROPERTIES=(WEIGHT:0.0,DEFAULT_CHARGE:-1,DEFENCE:0)


I also made a clone of a ful bomb since you mentioned it being a misc item, and thought the fact it was considered a weapon might be the issue. It is the same either way.

Now my relay code is currently set up like this, being very similar to your example, even though it's not the result I want.

ref000229-1 WALLITEM_RELAY_TRIPLE_DRAIN 2 28 0 CENTRE CONDITION=(TRIGGERING:X,EQUAL_TO,PARTY:X) ACTION=(ACTIVATE) TARGET=(ref000128-1)
ref000128-1 WALLITEM_RELAY 1 28 0 CENTRE CONDITION=(TRIGGERING:Y,EQUAL_TO,PARTY:Y) ACTION=(ACTIVATE) TARGET=(ref000127-1)
ref000127-1 WALLITEM_RELAY 1 27 0 CENTRE CONDITION=(TRIGGERING:Z,EQUAL_TO,PARTY:Z) ACTION=(ACTIVATE) TARGET=(ref000126-1)
ref000126-1 WALLITEM_ACTION 1 26 0 CENTRE ACTION=(ACTION_BOOST_CHARACTER_BYOBJECT,FLASK_POTION_KU,NULL) STRENGTH=(100)

It should make my character gain strength, but instead all the bolt does is a small amount of damage when it breaks on my party (such as if the monster just threw a rock at me). I guessing this is just a side effect of the item having to hit you. It still doesn't activate the relay though, no matter what.

Instead of the boost by object effect, what it will be doing is activating these actions instead, thus a triple drain.

ref000228-2 WALLITEM_ACTION 2 28 0 CENTRE ACTION=(ACTION_DAMAGE_BYMONSTER_HEALTH,NULL,NULL) STRENGTH=(15)
ref000228-3 WALLITEM_ACTION 2 28 0 CENTRE ACTION=(ACTION_DAMAGE_BYMONSTER_STAMINA,NULL,NULL) STRENGTH=(15)
ref000228-4 WALLITEM_ACTION 2 28 0 CENTRE ACTION=(ACTION_DAMAGE_BYMONSTER_MANA,NULL,NULL) STRENGTH=(15)

[Gambit37]

Why is the DEFAULT_CHARGE set to minus one?

[Lord_BoNes]

I do believe that a default charge of -1 allows for extra properties to be passed on during a convert, without it (I'm FAIRLY sure, tested this a while back...) the strength value doesn't properly get passed down to the fireball it converts into (it just creates a random strength fireball 1-100%).

[Soaponarope]

Yep, the -1 charge is needed for a spell effect to function correctly on a break event. If you look at the stats of a ven potion for instance you will notice a -1 charge.

So any idea why this won't work Bones?

[Lord_BoNes]

Tell me exactly what is happening... if need be send me a copy of your map, my e-mail address is the_lord_bones@hotmail.com

If you're having trouble in finding out why something isn't working, then use multiple WALLITEM_SPEECH's (IE: RELAY_1 triggers a WALLITEM_SPEECH which says "RELAY 1"... RELAY_2 could have "RELAY 2", etc.) to "debug" where the link is breaking.