Customable Water Fountains?

[j.tobergte]

Hi all!

Very cool new features in RTC v0.37 - Thanks George!

I want to make a dungeon part, where all Water Fountains are poisened. I cloned the WaterFlask to a PoisonWater and if you drink it, you get poisened - very good. But there is no way to tell the WaterFountain to poision the Party if you click on it - Is there a way to make WaterFountains customable that way? That would be very, very nice!

Happy Easter and keep on...
ciao, joerg.

[Sophia]

But there is no way to tell the WaterFountain to poision the Party if you click on it

Sure there is, just tell the fountain to trigger an ACTION wallitem with a BOOST action, and an object that has a poison value. You click on it, and it'll execute the action, and wham! Poision!

I haven't actually tried this yet, but I see no reason why it shouldn't work....

[beowuuf]

You'd clone the wallitem_action and create a wallitem_poison or somehting, right? So that you ould have all funtains just generally trigger 'wallitem_poison' and by placing one in the dungen it would be triggered fine without the need to target it

[Sophia]

No, the action only happens when filling a flask, the fountain would have to be treated as an actuator (i.e., with a target), to work generically.

[beowuuf]

Oops, you are right, only a 'convert flask' is editable on general wall objects just now

Hmm, how much work would it be to expand this to a general converts to and action on hand descriptors when cloning a wall object George?

[Sophia]

Hmm, how much work would it be to expand this to a general converts to and action on hand descriptors when cloning a wall object George?

What would be the point?

It can just be set to target an action wallitem to do whatever you wanted... unless I'm totally missing something here!

[beowuuf]

I was just thinking from for creating alot of them point of view, forgetting how powerful the editor is. You can create a copy of the item with all the target associations set then copy and paste it to the tile it is needed on : (

I shouldn't mock people about missing stuff if I'm going to post tired and miss stuff myself!

[MitchB1990]

Couldn't you just use the wallitem_medusa_fountain cause I thought that one could poison your party.

[beowuuf]

No, that one is the fountain for CSB

[TheMormegil]

I tried doing this and it seemed to be quite tricky to make it work to satisfaction. Sophia's suggestion works but as well as getting poisoned the character recieves water from the fountain! I assume if you want an area with poisoned fountains you don't want them to provide water.
The workaround I found : clone the fountain and disable flask filling.
Then put three of your cloned fountains on the wall.
The last on the tile is operated by mouse and triggers the action boost by object.
Next is one triggered by empty flask which triggers an action swap mouse to flask_poison.
And the top fountain is triggered by object and activates two relays. One deactivates the bottom fountain (since any object held in the mouse hand also counts as opby_mouse so clicking on the fountain with a flask or even a sword or something otherwise makes the character drink from it) and the other activates it again after a delay of 1.

Seems a lot more hassle than it ought to be. Is there an easier way?

[Sophia]

Is there an easier way?

Well, I feel like my way is a bit cleaner, but it's a tough call whether it's really any better: it still requires cloned objects, three fountains, and a little trickery.

You can combine the function of the opby flask and opby object fountains, as the swap can be safely triggered all the time, as it will only work if there is a flask in hand. I still use three fountains, though; I use a third fountain to dispense with the relays. I've also pointed everything at action wallitems instead of directly activating or deactivating everything, which makes the whole works easily cut and pasted once it's been put into a dungeon once.

Of course, this could all be made much easier by being able to specify the amount of water that a fountain gives-- maybe there's a useful suggestion in here yet.

Here's the example dungeon:

http://www.ojnk.net/dm/fountain_demo.txt

(I've put in a fun little test item that lets you verify the fountain is, indeed, giving you no water, as well!)

[beowuuf]

Well, it works exactly as advertised, pastes nicely and still works, so it's more up to the person who built it to go 'ooh, mechanics could be nicer' - this will, if you change your item references to say'sop0001 etc', paste cleaning into anyone's dungeon for them to use!

Mmm, I like cool mechanics.

[TheMormegil]

Nice example Sophia, this is definately cleaner and better for cut and pasting.

Of course, this could all be made much easier by being able to specify the amount of water that a fountain gives-- maybe there's a useful suggestion in here yet. Smile

Yes, an extra tab in the wall item convert section for 'mouse' perhaps.
Of course, you've shown it isn't strictly needed so maybe this won't be a high priority for George.

[beowuuf]

In this instance maybe, but saves him work and us time if we get stuff before we realise we need it! Plus be nice to go the other way and assign mouse hand actions for other cloned items too.

Plus some strange, freakish people don't like doing mechanics too! They just want to click the 'pickupable monster' flag and have the engine do it all for them! Slackers : )

[mikko]

Sophia's suggestion works but as well as getting poisoned the character recieves water from the fountain! I assume if you want an area with poisoned fountains you don't want them to provide water.

I think it's only realistic that you receive water as well as get poisoned. After all, you drink from the fountain. The water just happens to be poisoned but it's still water. If the fountains don't provide any water to drink then how would they poison the character. They would just be dried out useless fountains.

[Gambit37]

Yes, I agree. It's a very odd assumption to make that a poisoned fountain shouldn't provide water.

[beowuuf]

Well, it would be providnign water, but perhaps no water value - you puke it back up instantly? : )

[Sophia]

It's odd in a realism sense, but not in a game mechanics sense-- if the point is, "don't use this fountain," then not providing any water value is a good thing. Normally, running out of water is much worse than getting poisoned, so thirsty players may just ignore the drawbacks-- this may not necessarily be the desired reaction.

[TheMormegil]

I agree with Sophia(partly) and Beowuuf.
Food poisoning for example (which you can get from contaminated water not just food) makes you dehydrated.
Drinking sea water makes you dehydrated.
Also the fountain could be pure poision. It would need the graphic altered to change the blue to green perhaps but you get the idea.
Of course if the designer wants to provide water as well as poison then thats up to them, lucky if they do, its easier.

[RAF68]

somebody who would how be to return a fountain to poison by drinking her with the hand by using him with an empty bottle or a gourd somebody could make me a .txt which I sees how he made thank you

[Lord_BoNes]

To poison the party, (or at least the leader) just clone a WATER_FLASK, clone the fountain.... In your newly cloned flask, set the poison property (on the stats screen) to 1, to do the above mentioned "no water bonus" change the water property to zero. In your clone fountain's properties, just find all the references to the "oringal" WATER_FLASK, and change them to your cloned flask.

I hope you understand what I'm getting at here.

[Lord_BoNes]

Here is an example map I've made...

[Sophia]

to do the above mentioned "no water bonus" change the water property to zero

You kids have it so easy nowadays.

[beowuuf]

There's missiles that explode in a des cloud these days! Darn kids

Weee, I just went back and looked at my old 'fuse chaos/order' test dungeon. Happy days (this was CSBwin not RTC)

[RAF68]

did hello Lord bones I make your example for the fountains to poison but doesn't that go which moitier has the problem when I use a misc waterskin empty on the fountain it transforms himself into misc waterskin full poisonned when I drinks it I am to poison BUT WHAT the FIRST to gorge whereas the gourd entirety should poison you me understood? and if not when amn't I click with the hand I to poison, you understood that I said?

[Trego]

Understanding is difficult, but i think you want to be able to drink from the fountain just by clicking on it with the empty hand.

Clone a food item, set it to no food and no water, but add poison, set expire to -1, set action/covert on expire to boost character by object

On the fountain, in the click tabs, set one of these to... action: create new in hand, set object as you new food item.

[RAF68]

did I want to know how to make so that if the player wants to drink fountain while clicking above with the hand that it is poisonned?

[Lord_BoNes]

Do you mean poison the whole party? Not just the leader? If so, go into Consumables\MISC_DRINKING_WATER_POISONED, click edit and got to the convert section... click the "expire" tab, and change the action from ACTION_BOOST_CHARACTER_BYOBJECT to ACTION_BOOST_PARTY_BYOBJECT.

[Gambit37]

Why do you want to poison the whole party when only one of them has drunk the flask?

[beowuuf]

He's wanting it when the party hand drinks from the fountain directly, and I'd assume there was some request about 'all drink at once' when clicking on a fountain too?