Dungeon Master Forum

A follow-up....on that "Dragon beyond pits" (Because I cannot
edit my post):

Have you played the alternate goal of collecting every item and
killing every monster. I have and I accomplished it. It would not
have been possible if I were unable to reach the location of
any such dragon. (Unless there were some fancy pits or teleporters
that moved the dragon steaks that result from killing the dragon.)

There is a place on level 3 (Just below the DDD level)
where a dragon sits beyond three pits. But you can close
one of the pits: 03(11,15)

From these details, I am quite sure, that is the place and now I remember I finally found the way to get the steaks.

I have not played the alternate goal. I am not aware of this.
I only played the regular ATARI CSB with champions from DM, mapped carefully everything. but that was so long ago; Now, understanding my maps is very difficult despite I had a full understanding at the time I completed the game.

I appreciate your help about CSB memory.

I finally found ......>>>the<<<..... way to get the steaks

And, as is usual in Chaos Strikes Back, there is actually more than one way.

Even if you kill the dragon at the wrong location, there is a steak nearby that
you can throw. And, even if you have eaten all the steaks in the dungeon,
you can go to the Dragon Den and generate more.

I have found it difficult to find any dead-ends in Chaos Strikes Back.
Which stirs a thought.....Can anyone find a place to legally hide a Corbum
such that it cannot be retrieved. How many such places are there?

Also, do I remember correctly that if you throw something besides a Corbum
into the Ful Ya Pit then something bad happens? I think I remember trying it
and then by doing something rather special I was able to escape the
consequences. Might this be a way to create an un-winable condition.

Paul Stevens wrote: ↑Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:13 pm Can anyone find a place to legally hide a Corbum
such that it cannot be retrieved. How many such places are there?

There is no such a place because, it seems to me, a legal place to hide a corbum is a place from where anyone can retrieve it. Am I missing something ?

Also, do I remember correctly that if you throw something besides a Corbum
into the Ful Ya Pit then something bad happens? I think I remember trying it
and then by doing something rather special I was able to escape the
consequences. Might this be a way to create an un-winable condition.

I remember throwing something down the YA pit and running away as fast and far I could to survive a tremendous blast from the pit.
But I do not remember wether that was throwing a corbum down the pit or something else to just see what happens.
I think throwing corbums is safe and anything else gives hell and death when too close.

a legal place to hide a corbum is a place from where anyone can retrieve it

Perhaps we have different meaning for the word 'legal'.

You mean 'legal' to mean 'legal' within the context of the hide-and-seek
game. If you can't retrieve it then it was not legal.

I meant legal as in playing the game without modifying the game from
outside the play engine (for example, an editor) and leaving the
game in a playable state.

For example, one might throw the Corbum onto a location in the
dungeon that cannot be reached by the party because a key that
is needed has already been used somewhere else. Or one might throw
the Corbum into a pit that can be closed but never reopened. I consider
these 'legal' and ask how many such places exist. I cannot think of any yet.

I have not played the alternate goal. I am not aware of this.

CSBwin allows this. If you want to see **ALL** of Chaos Strikes Back, I
encourage you to try it. It is difficult. And a bit tedious. For one thing,
it is sometimes tricky to find your way back without accidentally creating
a new monster behind you. You will probably need the editor. I used the
editor and don't consider that to be cheating.

If the character for whom you're hiding the Corbum has a bag in the inventory, you may hide one of them in the bag. I did that the first time and it took long for my friend to search there. Sometimes when it's too obvious it works as well !

Is it possible to retrieve items given at "Surrender Your Possessions"? I feel ike it is, that they go to some secret, single-square room somewhere that's accessible through a false wall or something. But if not, that's certainly one way to perma-lose an item...

Is it possible to retrieve items given at "Surrender Your Possessions"?

Yes it is. Otherwise you could easily lose one of your Corbums (for example)
and be unable to finish the game.

items given at "Surrender Your Possessions"

Don't they go to alcoves at "Supplies for the quick" ?

Might it be possible to hide a Corbum in a place (A) such that
player actions might cause it to move to another place (B)? Then
the searcher might search (B) and never think to return there
because he had already searched that place. A teleporter or a
pit activated by the player's presence might suffice.

Placing it in the figure-8 'Zoom' area just outside the Ros exit
from DDD might be interesting. I haven't tried it but I assume
you could see the Corbum fly by every couple of seconds.

A flying corbum will be hard to get, but still be grabbable.

Is there a place in CSB where someone could throw a corbum, then loose it forever because he is moved when he goes at that place ?

It think the designers of CSB made sure of no dead ends. Losing a corbum forever would be a dead end.
Can we find such a flaw in the CSB design ?

Hide a Corbum in a place that permanently closes after your visit so you can never go back.
I think of the basement (south-east) of Neta path with the chest & walls trap. I put some corbums here then left. I don't think there is a way to clear the walls once they are in place.

I don't think there is a way to clear the walls once they are in place.

You may have forgotten the pit in the ceiling.

indeed, so it's still reachable -- but not easy to go back to, considering the random teleporting thing. Unless you know very well the dungeon or have some map viewer to help.

Sphenx wrote: ↑Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:16 am but not easy to go back to, considering the random teleporting thing. Unless you know very well the dungeon

The random teleporting is about the 4 way junction I presume.
At the 4 way junction, after choosing among Ros/Dain/Ku/Neta, then there are 3 levels one is "randomly" teleported into.
This randomness is pretty frustrating until you figure out it is not random but controled by timers.
Once you figure out the places that teleport and the timing, it becomes easy to navigate at the level you want.
This is well known in the DM community.
However, when I played CSB, long ago, it took me months to fully understand what the hell was going on.

Exactly.

It think the designers of CSB made sure of no dead ends.

They sure did a great job. Grynix!

The junction is the soul of CSB, the heart of the maze and one of the most excellent trick ever made in a videogame. Damn, I love that game.

Hi Nebulus. Have you played this 1988 game ? DosBox available.

Nebulus Level 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsa9OcQrdtU

Of course I have
The ST was my second life at that time. I have tons of memories on that machine. Nebulus of course but others such as Populous, Archipelagos, Powermonger, Castle Master, Damocles, Midwinter 2, Drakkhen, R-Type, Targhan, Ultima 5&6, Stunt Car, Ishar, Indiana Jones, Prophecy, Super Wonder Boy, Kult, Captain Blood, Monkey Island, Time Travelers, Prince of Persia and so many others.

But DM/CSB still remain my favourite ones.

Hi, I'm Marek, born in mid '70s in Poland, where I still live. I'm a software developer.

I first entered the dungeon in 1989 or 1990, back in my Atari ST days. Nowadays I'm not much of a gamer but I still get thrills hearing this heavy black gate opening.

You should try to go striking back in those tunnels, you won't regret it

Hello everyone!

I'm a new user on this forum, but far from being a newcomer to Dungeon Master; who is, anyways?
I'm 38, was born in Lille, France although I live abroad now, and remember fondly playing the first game game on my father's PC in 1990-91 (I always discovered games later than other people since my father built computers from old parts as a hobby and I wasn't allowed to play on the "modern" computer which was for work only!).
I got my hands on Chaos Strikes Back and CM II later on and played the hell out of them as well, and then they faded in the past as I got a more recent computer with newer games.
And now, I've got a huge surge of nostalgia and suddenly wanted to play the games of my childhood and teenage years: I searched, and found, Total Annihilation, Red Baron, Civilizations II and... of course, Dungeon Master!
See you soon on the forums!

Hey, welcome to the forum . Have fun replaying DM after all these years - the closest version to the original is probably CSBWin, but there is also RTC (which was designed from scratch so some of the numbers are a bit off) and DSB (which I've not tried). And a whole load of custom dungeons in each of those clones, made by various forum members over the years.
We also have a Discord server at https://discord.gg/2T8CSCR if you want to stop by and chat live - there's not many of us there and it's pretty quiet usually, but some of us are online frequently and up for a chat if you want to .

Welcome aboard.
Bienvenue Ch'ti.

Welcome to the forum, Iskra.
Enjoy revisiting DM. I'm also a big fan of Total Annihilation and Civ 2.
When you're done with them, try some custom dungeons.

Thanks! I've already ventured a little on the forums, it's awesome to see all of what has been accomplished by the community! And yes, I'll make sure to grab some player mods when I'm done beating the "original" games.

Hey everyone, I seem to swing in once in awhile to say hi but I'm not very active these days. I joined a good 12-13 years ago on another account, Stryker or something lame like that. That was back when I was 15 I think, and I'm 28 now. At that time I was living in Victoria, BC, Canada before moving near Toronto.

These days, I live with my wife and 3mo old baby in Tokyo, Japan and work as a software engineer. Pretty big change lol, but I make more than I did in Canada and it's alot cheaper in Tokyo than Toronto (good luck ever owning a reasonably priced house in a major Canadian city!)

Not sure if anyone would remember me, maybe Ameena would. She drew bandage sprites for a dungeon I tried my hand at making back then, so that was me if you remember haha

Glad to see things are still active around here!

Tokyo? Wow. That is a big change.
What kind of living accommodations do you have in Tokyo?
When I was there (decades ago), rent was rather expensive
relative to salary. Only the very rich had private homes.

Ohh yes, I do recognise the name "Stryker", I think, and I do vaguely remember doing those really bad bandage images for you, lol. Welcome back to the forum .