Starting CSB *no spoilers please*

BloodFromStone · Post by **BloodFromStone** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 9:46 am

Hey guys... I just finished DM not too long ago. I've been playing around with a few variations on groups for DM, but finally decided it was time to start playing through CSB. I just started tonight. I'm not sure how far I am, since it doesn't really seem to be done by 'floors'. it sure is hard, though! I'm using Tunda and Petal, and so far I've slayed a dragon and taken its mithril, falled down a bunch of pits (One of which lead to said dragon), and where I just stopped is in the 'No Fireballs" area... I've been trying to get Executioner, but the knights keep killing me. Last time I tried backint into one of their little hallways so that I couldn't be hit from more than one side. Petal brewed potions while Tunda fought. It worked pretty well, I got two down and almost killed a third, but I didn't have the mana to keep up. I'm probably missing a trick.

But anyway, just thought I'd let people know there was a newbie going through CSB.

Post by **linflas** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 9:52 am

playing csb for the first time with only 2 people must be really hard : good luck anyway !

Post by **Gambit37** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:09 am

You say you don't want spoilers; do you want any tips at all?

BloodFromStone · Post by **BloodFromStone** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 1:05 pm

Not yet. I'll see how I do on my own. I'm sure I'll end up having to ask for help somewhere along the lines, though. I did finally kill those damned knights and get the Executioner, though.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 1:12 pm

do you want warnings about important items you might have missed?

anyway, good luck! it takes some getting used to, but once you get the 'logic' of the place and find the common areas to settle at, it's by no means impossible

*cough cough wheeze cough*

Post by **Ameena** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 7:18 pm

You know you don't HAVE to start CSB with the CSB characters? You can import your old party from DM if you prefer familiar faces

. Just in case you were unaware of that. But the CSB chaps mostly have cooler-looking pics anyway

.

Post by **Lunever** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 7:48 pm

Well, if you kill the knights one by one before they kill you you'll enjoy the Executioner at last.

As soon as you feel the need for more substantial hints just let me know. But one thing: The most difficult challenge in CSB is not simply monsters and traps, but orientation!

BloodFromStone · Post by **BloodFromStone** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 3:39 am

Yeah, I'm beginning to realize that! I killed the knights and got the axe, but I have trouble even figuring out where I'm going.

Words cannot describe the amount of seething hatred I have for those damned flying red things that poison! I thought I hated bees in the first one! They're like bees on crack that deal more damage!

The Journeyman · Post by **The Journeyman** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 1:58 pm

you mean those little fellas ? hehe

sucinum · Post by **sucinum** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 6:29 pm

csb is really HARD, but starting with KU and getting stuff like the mithril-armor and the executioner was a good idea, this will help you surely. now you have a good equipment base to explore the dungeon step by step.

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 7:14 pm

explore the dungeon step by step

That is the problem. You cannot explore 'step-by-step'. When you
enter the Junction you wind up in one of 12 different places. You have
no idea where you are. You have no idea how to get there again. You
have no idea how they are connected. It is Chaos until you have
wandered around at random for enough hours to become slightly
able to control your fate. Even then, extending your horizons is still
a matter of trial-and-error until you reach the DDD. Then it becomes
less frustrating and simply extremely difficult.

I think it is great because it rewards experience of the player rather
than the characters he is controlling.

Step-by-step was what you remember from DM.

The Journeyman · Post by **The Journeyman** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 8:34 pm

Paul Stevens wrote: You have
no idea where you are. You have no idea how to get there again. You
have no idea how they are connected. It is Chaos...

Yeah...isn't that just great? Just the way it has to be in a dungeon created by a Lord Chaos.....in that light original DM is more of a fight against Lord Organized, but then again, according to the manual, the dungeon was created by the Grey Lord...

sucinum · Post by **sucinum** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 11:36 pm

of course it lasts longer than in DM, but you "only" have to explore each of the 4 ways from the junction to the DDD. during that, you will most probably find the other 2 altars of each way and will get into the system. of course it's very chaotic and that is what i mean when calling csb HARD, but after all, it's a question of time and it's much easier with good equipment and trained chars.
step by step was maybe the wrong description, because it implicated that you can step backwards, too

The Journeyman · Post by **The Journeyman** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 12:23 am

yeah...but dont let there be a pit behind you

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 1:20 am

you will most probably find the other 2 altars of each way and will get into the system

Exactly. And the word 'probably' is a key word in this idea. In CSB, until you
discover what is going on and have more-or-less finished the game, you don't
know which way is forward. In DM it was obvious which way was forward and
which way was backward and you could take a step forward and say that you
were closer to the finish. For example, in CSB it is reasonable for a beginner to
assume that killing the Dragon and getting the Solid Key will be very useful.
An expert will go there only if he happens to enjoy that sort of thing.

CSB is clearly 'easy' in one sense....witness the records of winning the game
in 15 minutes with a single resurrected champion. But that is only after a LOT
of experience points have been gathered by the player (Not by the heroes in
the game). The people in these speed contests were 'experts' yet they
were learning new things every day by watching the records made by others.

Much of CSB is totally ****IMPOSSIBLE**** to discover by simply wandering
around and fighting with every monster you see. A great example is the
proper method of dealing with the Neta Vexirk (I'm trying
not to provide spoiler). I bet a hundred people could play the game until they
considered themselves expert and not discover this 'easy' trick.

BloodFromStone · Post by **BloodFromStone** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 1:25 am

Yes, though little fellas! They're so evil.

sucinum · Post by **sucinum** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 1:39 am

i never had problems with the neta-vexirks, but that could be luck

when i started csb with about 14 or 15 years, i got the neta-corbum quite easily and only had problems with the 3 others, especially ros and very especially dain (bridge and all the stuff around that).
imho, it doesn't mind too much if you step forwards or backwards, many parts of the game are optional, but still fun. sooner or later, you have seen the most and get the clue. there are many ways to get back to the junction, so you can try another way if you are stuck. you also have (potentially) enough food and water to explore as long as you want to. most of the time in csb you are totally clueless, what you are doing. so what? fun anyways

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 1:55 am

in csb you are totally clueless, what you are doing. so what? fun anyways

On these things we agree completely. And you can continue to discover
new things through literally years of play. The operation of the ROS pit
and the easy way to dispatch the skeletons below the DDD is another
of those things that nobody could ever really understand
without resorting to an editor. One can only begin to slowly form
habits that cause the skeletons to be blasted and the pit to close for unknown reasons.

BloodFromStone · Post by **BloodFromStone** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 3:04 am

Neta-vexirks? Is that what those things are called? Now I know what name to curse aloud.

I probably shouldn't have the problems with them that I do, but since my most hated monster in DM were bees, and they're just cybernetic ninja assassin bees from the future.

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 3:40 am

I think you're talking about Munchers. Munchers are red and poisonous.
Not too much trouble if you get the hang of them. Vexirks stand on
the floor and cast various spells. In quantity they are dangerous.

BloodFromStone · Post by **BloodFromStone** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 3:55 am

Ahhh, I haven't ment Vexirks, then. Munchers, I have. I'm ready for a hint, however. Just got past the stone golem near the poison lauchers. There's a door that you unlock with a solid key that has 'Ku' on the wall next to it. Then, a long corridor that says 'Dead End'. Death knights appear and the corridor gets longer. I killed the knights and I've gotten to the end of the corridor, but it is, indeed, a dead end. I know there is some kind of teleporter in here, though, because I tested with magical footprints. It doesn't seem to be one of the places that makes you turn around, either, as I've kept an eye on my compass as I went through it. I have a feeling this place is important, since it's marked with 'Ku', but I can't figure out how to get down the corridor without hitting the dead end.

sucinum · Post by **sucinum** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 4:56 am

you should not have killed the knights, they are supposed to chase you down until the dead end, which makes the wall open behind you. i don't if it's possible to make another monster follow you there, if not, you have a problem which needs external actions to be solved.
if the wall is already open (if there is a corner at the other end of the dead end sign, it is open), just a small riddle before the stairs.

BloodFromStone · Post by **BloodFromStone** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 5:16 am

Yeah, the dead end after the words 'Dead End' has been opened... But past there, there is a reeeaaally long corridor that leads to ANOTHER dead end. No stairs, though. Was I supposed to let them chase me all the way down the really long corridor to open the second dead end?

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 5:20 am

and the corridor gets longer.

You are very advanced and in good shape. The corridor gets
very long, turns a couple times, and near the end is a switch
to open the door to the stairwell.

You are about to find the Mother Lode of groceries.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:59 pm

vexirks - they are actually called Mon-vexirks - they are jsut called neta-vexirks cause they are in the neta path....
and i agree, i hate the munchers worst of all the critters...funnily, don't hate wasps as much as the munchers...i think becuase never encounter wasps i nthe sheer numbers that munchers always appear

and if the next long corridor has been opened, then it ain't a weapon you need...it's good eyes...oops, nm, paul mentioned it above

munchers - the hint with them is that, like wasps, they are very susceptible to low level missile spells. plus alot of the time there is a certain logic to their appearance

BloodFromStone · Post by **BloodFromStone** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 3:42 pm

Yeah, I've been blasting those damned munchers with low level fireballs... But they tend to jump on me when I'm low on mana.
Thanks for the info, Paul. I must've overlooked it.

Incidently, I was running around on an alternate save, just doing some exploring while I was waiting for a response, and I accidently squished a dragon.

I climbed down a pit and was all "Why are there so many dragon steaks down here?" then the next time I did it there were no steaks, but a very angry dragon. I also got to the 'supplies for the quick' or whatever place. I fell down a lot, but after some boggling, I managed to find a way to get the stuff in one go. Of course, none of this _actually_ happened, because I didn't save, but my champions will hopefully find themselves with an unexplainable familiarity with that puzzle.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 5:36 pm

lol, yes, it's amazing when you get used to the supplies for the quick - did you manage to get the axe without falling?

BloodFromStone · Post by **BloodFromStone** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 2:31 am

Hmm... I don't remember if I got the axe, honestly. Since I didn't save, I only glanced over my loot. The dragon plate sounds pretty sweet, though. I ended up running circles around the pedestal, grabbing and dropping everything, then I just let myself fall after I'd gotten everything, so all of my goodies were waiting for me below. There's probably a better way to do it. I got the impression you could run back to the doorway you enter through and not fall.

BloodFromStone · Post by **BloodFromStone** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 3:40 am

Actually, I just tested it, and it seems more efficent than falling to get everything. I think I might fall anyway, just for the water fountain down there.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 8:44 am

if you can take the .....never mind! that would be a spoiler : )

Dungeon Master Forum

Starting CSB no spoilers please

Starting CSB no spoilers please