CSBwin:Fighters dont gain lvls by swinging fighter weapons?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 8:51 am

Ok, I have tested that on another Dungeon Master clone, you can earn some XP by just swinging fighter weapons (87 for the 1st level), but while playing Dungeon Master with CSBwin, I have reach 117 and nothing has happened.
Is it an unrevealed bug, or maybie the original Dungeon Master on Atari didn't allow that trick, or something else?

FallenSeraphin · Post by **FallenSeraphin** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 1:50 pm

I think you only actually gained experience on the amiga and pc versions of DM / CSB... try swinging at doors and stuff you can actually break

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 2:17 pm

there is a hacked version of csbwin on the encycopaedia that lets you see experience gain - use this to see what is going on

what clone though? RTC is closer to DM, but still not point for point - DM Java is much further removed i nthe experience model

Also, level depth makes a difference

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 2:51 pm

You can see experience changes in CSBwin, too. Select
window size 1.

me guest · Post by **me guest** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:59 pm

It works but it's much more slower than in the other clone (beowuuf:DMPC from dmweb.free.fr) With Sonja, here's the result I got (new tests):

Initially I got that by swinging her sword: (size x1)
Skill[4]=0x00000161 1f4
Skill[4]=0x00000160 1f3

Then I was bored. So I tried to reach a ninja level by kicking in the air:
It happened at:
Skill[9]=0x000001f7
Skill[9]=0x000001f5

So I thought that if I can reach these same numbers for the fighter skills, maybie it will work, and I finally reach level 1 at:
Skill[4]=0x000001f4
Skill[4]=0x000001f3

Well much more than 87 times aye...

PS: both tests above (in the original post) were done in the same level of DM, level 00, and both with Sonja She Devil.
(not with the same stats I didn't checked them (Sonja was reincarnated), but the numbers were enough different IMO to take into account the possible theorical slight differences - Anyway, it was check up again in these new tests.)
PS2: maybie it's not only true for swinging fighter weapons, but for the rest too aye.. (slower generally to reach levels in CSBwin perhaps)
PS3: dunno which one (CSBwin or DMPC) would be closer to the original game on Atari ST.

me guest · Post by **me guest** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:02 pm

Slight correction (typo):

Initially I got that by swinging her sword: (size x1)
Skill[4]=0x00000161
Skill[4]=0x00000160

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:09 pm

dunno which one (CSBwin or DMPC) would be closer to the original game on Atari ST.

Unless there are mistakes in the translation (and I have good reason to believe
there are not), CSBwin is an exact translation of the Atari code insofar as these
skills are concerned. I compared the execution of CSBwin and the Atari program
using an emulator. Many hours of testing to be sure that they acted exactly
the same. Not just externally the same but internally the same.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:16 pm

`
And PC DM isn't a clone, it's still the original game!
Also, i'm nto sure which came later - the CSB game, or the conversion to PC of DM (it'll be on the codex or encyclopaedia...

so basically there is nothign to correct, it's just a quirk between different platforms and between DM and CSB

me guest · Post by **me guest** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:08 am

well Paul you look for bugs generally and I think you would like to be the closest one can be to the original game, so I thought it was OK to post it here.

But this one sounds to not be a bug actually regarding what you think about this (and what you have done like you explained it), more an odd difference between DM on PC and DM on CSBwin (on Atari ST), a quirk maybie like Beowuuf wrote.

Maybie something to note on DMweb.free.fr, Guillaume made attention to any difference and wrote every detail he knows about the different DM and CSB (and on DM 2 etc), here maybie overall slower rate to earn skills while playing DM in CSBwin. (check in one example only here)

Let me know what you think now. Yes, no?

me guest · Post by **me guest** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 1:34 am

BTW what does "Extra ticks" means in the speed menu ?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 1:44 am

Extra Ticks:

Check the Miscellaneous Technical Documentation at dmweb.free.fr

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 1:53 am

The business with skills......

Indeed, as Beowuuf implies, comparing DM and CSB may not be
that valid. We certainly know that they changed some things (The
stats are halved in CSB when you reincarnate). THey could very
well have changed other things. CSBwin was translated from Atari CSB.
It was very surprising to find that it could also play the DM games.
It would not be surprising to find that they are different in some details.

Edit: Another thing I notice that may be relevant here.
War Cry would gain Priest levels in DM. But in CSB yoiu have to
be standing in fron of a monster in order for it to be effective.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:29 am

I'm sure war cry has some weird quirk too, like in one instance it gives you priest levels, and in another instance it will gain you fighter levels

I think monsters = priest, in air = fighter...sucinum has done alot of messing around with this

me guest · Post by **me guest** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 9:16 am

Thanks for the place where I can find the clues on the "Extra ticks". I see now the difference BTW, with an without, dunno how I did not see it at first glance.

Anonymous wrote:The business with skills......

Indeed, as Beowuuf implies, comparing DM and CSB may not be
that valid. We certainly know that they changed some things (The
stats are halved in CSB when you reincarnate). THey could very
well have changed other things. CSBwin was translated from Atari CSB.
It was very surprising to find that it could also play the DM games.
It would not be surprising to find that they are different in some details.

Edit: Another thing I notice that may be relevant here.
War Cry would gain Priest levels in DM. But in CSB yoiu have to
be standing in fron of a monster in order for it to be effective.

woooa so DM in CSBwin is CSBwin with 'just' the DM dungeon? I initially thought that DM in CSBwin was cut and pasted from DMPC or similar, well to have both games into one.

...hum War Cry gains Priest Levels in the DM game of CSBwin... (tested in air - probably the contrary vs monsters following the idea @ beowuuf and what I have seen myself on DMweb.free.fr)

me guest · Post by **me guest** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 9:26 am

BTW, thank you for your hard work Mister Stevens it has to be told and re-told, very nice to be able to play CSB on windows XP.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 1:51 pm

yes, the dungeon is cut and pasted from DM, but of course the engine is still the CSB engine
So the mechanics of DM from PC DM or even atari DM don't apply

purple1 · Post by **purple1** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:02 pm

I've noticed gameplay changes over platforms. In DM2, it was possible to inset a key in a lock, open a door, and rapidly close the door, grab the key, and throw it through the doorway before the door closed (thus locking yourself in/out of a room). In DM1 SNES, you cannot press a button to close a door and rapidly run through the doorway before the door closes on you. CSBWin is probably close enough, because no diehard fans complain of it being easier or harder. Maybe nobody really paid attention to that kind of stuff.

Post by **Zyx** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 4:45 pm

The graphics.dat contains information about the amount of experience earned by each action, and in which skill you earn it. There are several differences between DM'sand CSB's graphics.dat. For example, the warcry action.
Someone should make a comparative synopsis of the actions for each graphics.dat. I think Christophe started something like this in the encyclopaedia.

sucinum · Post by **sucinum** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 5:13 pm

warcry gives fighter- and priest-exp in dm and only priest-exp in csb.
am i the only warcrier?

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 5:45 pm

yes. all the rest of uis have girlie shrieks like johnny bravos and and get embarrassed : )

purple1 · Post by **purple1** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:18 pm

Clever, beowuuf. Verrrrry clever.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:28 pm

0.0 me?

-.- *he knows too much*

Post by **Zyx** » Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:28 am

http://www.dungeon-master.com/forum/vie ... 9942#39942
Check this thread about the hidden skills