Custom sounds?

Post by **Gambit37** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 1:22 pm

Has anyone yet cracked how to replace the sounds in graphics.dat?

Between them, Rain, Charlatan and Christophe seem to know the structure of this file. Rain's DMextract program extracts all the data files and there are a bunch of .dats that are clearly the sound data. The tool can recompile a graphics.dat to use new graphics, so...

How difficult is it to take it to the next step and add similar customisation of sounds?

Post by **ChristopheF** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 8:10 pm

Changing sounds for the PC or Amiga versions would be very easy. The format is documented on my site. This is basically raw uncompressed digital sound data that you can open in sound editing programs like goldwave.

For the Atari ST version, though, this is more difficult. The sounds are compressed using something like ADPCM encoding I think, but I have never investigated enough in understanding the details (thus no documentation for ST sounds). Maybe Paul knows how the sounds are decoded in CSBwin.

Post by **Gambit37** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 10:41 pm

Paul? Can you offer any insight into this -- I'd really like to have some custom sounds in my new dungeon....

kentaro-k.21 · Post by **kentaro-k.21** » Fri May 14, 2004 1:48 pm

hi.

i have just stealthily uploaded the tool at dmweb Encyclopaedia forum:
http://dmweb.free.fr/Forum/read.php?f=8&i=122&t=122

EDIT: next interpretation is brought from reverse engineering of CSBwin source code. thus, actual format may be different from original format representation.
snd1 is just 4-bit 6000Hz pcm wave form format, and accepts easy RLE compression. (all thanks for CSBwin source!)

Post by **Gambit37** » Fri May 14, 2004 2:18 pm

Woo Hoo -- thanks you very much! Am trying it at the moment...

I have a small problem -- when I import new sounds, they have a lot of noise on them. I am using Sound Forge to convert to 6,000Hz at 8-bit (I can't go down to 4-bit).

Is this the problem?

When I export a SND1 to a WAV, it creates a 6000Hz 8bit WAV. If I re-import that immediately, it sounds perfect.

What is the difference between my WAVs and the ones created by your tool??

Post by **Gambit37** » Fri May 14, 2004 2:55 pm

I've done some investigating into this. I used StripWav to clean up my WAV headers in case they were wrong, and it made no difference. I also tried copying the headers from your WAVs into mine, and that made no difference either.

I don't understand this. Your tool imports it's own generated WAVs perfectly, but if they are changed in any way, or replaced with something different, then the new SND1 files are full of noise...

Post by **Gambit37** » Fri May 14, 2004 3:25 pm

Here's a visual comparison.

The top file is my original sound file, resampled to 6000Hz / 8bit.

The bottom file is after i converted it to SND1 using your tool, then converted it back to WAV using the same tool.

You can clearly see that your tool has simplified the wave form and added a lot of noise. But it doesn't do this if you extract a SND1 file, convert it to WAV then convert it back again! The file is identical in every way. Very strange!

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Fri May 14, 2004 4:23 pm

For what it is worth........I believe that if you look at
the CSBwin closely you will see that the 4-bit sound is
not exactly PCM in the same way that a .wav file is PCM.
The Atari sound system had an exponential response and
CSBwin attempts to reproduce this behaviour when it
converts the 4-bit samples to an in-memory wave file.

Whether I got it right is an open question.

kentaro-k.21 · Post by **kentaro-k.21** » Fri May 14, 2004 10:24 pm

hi.

---
i assumed the SND1 format is 4 bits PCM sound, and i coded the tool to exchange the data in that format. merely my guess.

Paul pointed that next description is not actual even if sound decoder exists in CSBwin, because it seems to be only quasi decoder.

> snd1 is just 4-bit 6000Hz pcm wave form format, and accepts easy RLE compression. (all thanks for CSBwin source!)

thus, this is my lying. i apologize for carelessness information supply.

---
> You can clearly see that your tool has simplified the wave form and added a lot of noise.

your point (about noise) is right (if there is implicit sympathy, that snd1 is just 4 bits PCM sound, between i and you).
because my tool just carries out thoughtless linear range conversion between 4 bits and 8 bits, as you point, converted dat file (quasi snd1) will contain noises.
about 'thoughtless linear range conversion', please look at the modified figure: http://homepage3.nifty.com/kkdf/0515_001.gif
if you hope, i will improve this behavior.

---
> For what it is worth

i guess it is worth that anyone can have their own sound on "CSBwin", even if CSBwin uses quasi sound decoder.

Post by **Gambit37** » Fri May 14, 2004 10:42 pm

A way round this would be to create a proper 4-bit WAV file -- but I can't seem to find a tool that will do this. Everything I've tried only allows 8 or 16 bit sounds.

Does anyone know of a good tool that can save uncompressed 4-bit WAV files?

kentaro-k.21 · Post by **kentaro-k.21** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 6:07 pm

hi.
in Aug 2004, i had improved the encoder code a liitle bit, and new code was integrated into DM1GDED.
DM1GDED is still unpublished. development memo is available at my site: http://members.at.infoseek.co.jp/danmas ... M1GDED.htm
if anyone wanna try DM1GDED, i'll publish current development version. at least, it may help you to edit SND data easily.

DM1GDED has capable to edit some IMG/SND data in graphics.dat. it won't equip useful editor features found on ADGE (such as meaningful editor for 0558 raw data).

DM1GDED won't care for 0558 raw data, so your trial to change image size with DM1GDED causes messed up display in the game play. because ADGE has good features/UI to edit 0558 raw data effectively, DM1GDED won't support it for good.

if i continue to develop DM1GDED, i will improve so that it can cover weakness of ADGE.

Post by **ChristopheF** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 7:24 pm

I'd be glad to see the current dev version of DM1GDED if you post it somewhere.

What features will it include that are not in ADGE ?

kentaro-k.21 · Post by **kentaro-k.21** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:32 pm

hi, Christophe.

i'll publish soon, and i just a qeustion for you.

DM1GDED always depends on map files in your file decoder package to edit any img/snd/text data.
would you mind if i attach the map files to published rar archive?

about features, please don't hold your breath, there won't be fresh features in DM1GDED.
the purpose of DM1GDED was to replace your hard working (extract files, editing images/sounds and rebuild graphics.dat) can be done by DMExtract with easy way... very straight motive. i had another purpose to write DM1GDED last summer, but i cannot remember it now.

Post by **ChristopheF** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:00 am

You can publish the .map files with your program if you want, no problem on my side.

kentaro-k.21 · Post by **kentaro-k.21** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 3:16 pm

thanks, i uploaded current dev ver on my file site, it is a little bit large (213k).
http://homepage3.nifty.com/kkdf/DM1GDED.Rev.0.rar

Post by **ChristopheF** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:41 pm

Thanks for this tool. It make it easy to browse a graphics file.

In fact it is now possible to upload files up to 2 MB in size in the forums. Soon I will make available a new system for uploading files and sharing things on my web site.

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 6:19 pm

dianneandpaul.net/CSBwin

CSBuild1.75
FeedingFilter.rar (CSBwin 9.8v34)
CSBgraphics.exe version 3.0

Notice anything new?

rain` · Post by **rain`** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 7:18 pm

Paul Stevens wrote:dianneandpaul.net/CSBwin

CSBuild1.75
FeedingFilter.rar (CSBwin 9.8v34)
CSBgraphics.exe version 3.0

Notice anything new?

I haven't looked yet but I'm gonna take a guess...

More lack of backwards compatability? ^^

Good work =]

Post by **Zyx** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 7:20 pm

Noticed. You did it!
I cannot export from CSBgraphics.dat, it only allows bmp.
Also, which formats are supported for the import?
EDIT: found it, it's PCM 11,025 kHz; 8 bits; Mono
Playing a sound this way doesn't respect the general volume settings from the menu.

In CSBgraphics.exe, when importing, giving a name of more than 16 characters crashes the application.
Putting a space in the name gives an error with an unclear message.

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 8:50 pm

Ain't it nice that I left all this room for improvement?

Post by **Zyx** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:24 pm

Nice indeed. And you also left some mysteries. Tonight I'll dream about the possible uses of the third parameter of &SOUND.

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 1:22 am

The third parameter is there just in case we need it.

Two possibilities I mentioned before. Stopping any current sound
and discarding any subsequent sounds during the custom sound.
Perhaps a repeat count (although I don't know how to implement
it).

kentaro-k.21 · Post by **kentaro-k.21** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 8:58 am

Paul, it is the best approach to have custom sounds in CSBwin!

currently i don't understand the detail implement. so i'll check it, and i'll write a review (tutorial) about connection between CSBwin and CSBgraphics in the future.

Post by **PaulH** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 10:37 am

Very nice. Very, very nice. Will have to learn these DSA thingies.

Post by **Gambit37** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 12:22 pm

Does this support for custom sounds extend to all the existing sounds? Can we replace attack sounds, spell sounds, etc. in this way?

Post by **Zyx** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 12:43 pm

Right now:
party attack sounds: no
monster attack sounds: yes
sound when casting: yes
explosions: no
moving sounds: no

Post by **Zyx** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 3:07 pm

It seems that the volume parameter has no effect at all: I tried from 1 to 100 and noticed no change.

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 5:01 pm

Volume will work next time I post an executable. The volume parameter is
a divisor of the PCM samples. The menu volume divides by 2, 4, 8 in addition (no
pun intended).

We should implement a sound filter so any sound can be modified. Should be easy.

Edit: Maybe we can provide monster movement sounds.

Post by **Zyx** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 6:13 pm

Could you add a command parameter or a command line in the config.txt to set the "Attempt using DirectX" option by default? (even if it crashes the game when quiting, with long sounds it becomes almost obligatory to use a multichannel solution )

monster movement sounds: maybe a monster movement filter?

Does anyone have ripped the big steping sound from pc dm or amiga dm?

Post by **Gambit37** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:08 pm

I've got all the sounds in good quality with added echo -- I'll mail you a zip.

Dungeon Master Forum

Custom sounds?

Custom sounds?

replacing snd1