Dungeon Master Forum

So, so, so, opinions etc? I though it was really bloody brilliant .

I a way it was a little bit of a cheat the way the pandorica was resolved at the start (then again, there was a line explaining that), but of course more importantly the just before the credits 'this is where it gets complicated', the result of the explosion, seeing amelia back, etc etc was all worth it. Plus there was no real way to do anything to keep going in the same vein afetr last week's. Cool it went in an unexpected direction, and turned the previous end into a slowly boiling threat. And River Song got turned up another notch as both a bad-ass and also a as a little bit...dare I say it ...bad?

The ending was really great. Even though you knoooooooooooooow it's not the end of the doctor, the whole situation and the way its played and the doctor's speech at the end just had me with a tear in my eye And, of course, it was therefore a pretty fun pay-off when all of a sudden the doctor's story made sense.

Oh, ooh, ooh, and I loved the fact the 'remember what I told you when you were seven' was paid off!

I need to watch it again, it was odd to have the alliance gone, but yeah...that was a pretty cool send off. Whatever can steven moffatt come up with next year???

Hehe yeah, typical Moffat...makes it all weird and complicated and yet somehow it all ties up at the end in a really cool way. Something some people had been commenting on earlier in the series was the apparent continuity error of the Doctor's jacket reappearing on him during the scene in the forest on the Byzantium - and suddenly that makes sense too because it was a different version of the Doctor and all that .
And I liked the way it all, at the end, tied in into that one little rhyming phrase that everyone knows (the one Amy quotes as the TARDIS finally reappears) . Damn, what are they gonna put together for the next series...
My dad said this series finale made a change from it all being some kind of uber big pitched battle thing - it was all quite subtle, really - all quiet conversations and weird hints and stuff being dropped.
And yet it all ties up, it all makes sense, it's all just amazingly cool .
And I'm glad it's not just the Doctor who's staying on - the others are cool too .

I was worried it was going to be strike three for rory, since he proved himself to be a very good man...and it was hitned that river song killed a good man (you're supposed to think it's the doctor, I'm still going with a relative of the doctor!)

And yes, it was great that while there was lots of rushing back and forth in time and so on, the threat was a slow threat (though a little chilling when suddenly Amelia disappears) and that at the end they talked and said lots of cool things.

And awww, the doctor was goign to his his very existence erased just to let Amy get her parents back

River said that not nly did she kill a "good" man, but that he was "The best I've ever known", or something. Yeah, it is pretty strongly hingint at it being the Doctor. Maybe your Roroy theory is possible, if the Doctor isn't considered a "man" due to his not being actually human .
And technically, no, the Doctor wasn't quite going to have his very existence erased - he would have done, had he not done the sneaky memory-plant thing into young Amelia for when she grew up and got married .

Oh, and because the controller of the Tardis, nor the meaning of 'silence will fall' were explained, do you think that the Vash de narada (however you spell it) from 'silence in the library' were ultimately responsible in some way. They either have a hive mind, or a controller, that wanted the whole universe in darkness? Or do you think 'silence will fall' was simply supposed to mean the doctor (gobby) being trapped?

Just a thought...

I just watched it and thought it was pretty cool, albeit a little confusing. I hadn't picked up on some of the overall story arc details that you discussed above, so to really understand all the subtle nuances, I'd have to watch the whole series again! But very well done nevertheless, a really clever coming together for the finale and it restored my faith after a few dodgy episodes.

Massive respect to Moffat for some genius writing around the "Something old, something new" maxim -- that was just brilliant and bought a tear to the eye. And his overall story arc for the series, with all the little clues (despite me clearly missing some) has certainly been the cleverest out of all the new series'.

I'm still not entirely sure I understand Rory. So Amy's memory of him brought him back when the universe was rebooted, but has she brought back the real Rory or the Nesteen clone?

And I'm loving Alex Kingston's performance as River: she has just the right amount of mystery to keep the future interesting...

The Doctor in a fez and a mop has got to be one of the funniest images and will endure for a long time

I'm rewatching silence in the library - or a least I was until my coputer just issued another, much stronger 'screw you' that's going to see me go out to PC world (long trek) instead of tidying my flat for visitors and enoying the sunshine in a relaxing way.

Before the crash, I was really enjoying seeing her early performance in light of the recent ones.

Good luck with PC!

Also, I think it's actually good that they've kept Rory and Amy together for the next series. I know some fans think Rory is a waste of space and just there for comic relief, but actually it's a good device to shift focus away from the Dcotor and his hot sidekick and the "will they, won't they" that also pervaded Piper's tenure (and to a lesser degree Agyeman). And having a second assistant was always a big part of the original series' plus it gives opportunities for interesting three way conflicts in future stories. I admit I'm not massively enamoured of the actor who plays Rory, but they could do a lot worse.

I like Rory - he's sort of comically funny and sort of makes you go "aaww" the way he's so goofily in love with Amy. I was glad both of them stayed too .
I think it sis the real rory this time - I did wonder that. But when Auton-Rory was constructed by the Nestene from the memories taken from Amy's house, when she finally remembered him I think basically he became re-entrenched in her mind, so there was no worry that she'd forget him again, and thus he got a rez (along with her parents, etc) when Big Bang Two happened.
Oh, and Wuffy, it's spelt "Vashda Nerada" .

Yeah, anything the crack had taken came back - so the real rory aswell as her parents I believe (plus I have to assume her aunt was taken at some point in the 12 years between the doctor arriving and coming back)

Lol, VAsjda Nerada...cool. I'm even more hoping/sure they will be a part of next season, and things. They are, after all, the reason why all cultures fear the dark!

River Song gets some great lines too (except for that shield exposition!)

You will be exterminated!
Not yet. Your systems are still restoring which means your shield density is compromised. One Alpha Meson burst through your eyestalk would kill you stone dead.
Records indicate you will show mercy!You are an associate of the Doctor's! *
I'm River Song.... Check your records again!
Mercy.
Say it again...
Mercy!
One.. more... time...
MERCCCYYYYY!...


* I'm not sure if "Doctor's" is a grammatical error here (wouldn't you just say "Doctor"?), or if the Dalek is referring to Doctors plural....

And I also loved the River/Doctor interhange at the end:

Are you married, River?
Are you asking?
Yes
Yes!
No, hang on, did you think I was asking you to marry me, or or or asking if you were married?
Yes!
No, but was that "Yes" or "Yes"?
*whispers*: Yes
River......... who are you?
You're going to find out very soon now. And I'm sorry... but that's when everything changes.
River vanishes and the Doctor looks bemused: Nah

Doctor's seems grammatically correct to me. And don't you think the Dalek kill was both cool and chilling. Because really, someone who is the doctor's companion or 'companion' shouldn't be that much of a cold blooded killer, even if she thinks the doctor is dead. So, you know, you wonder if the good man she killed won't end up being an accident...

And yeah, that end bit is cool because it means a) we should get another river episode pretty soon into the next series, and b) it should be shocking when we find out the truth behind her!

I still reckon it's the doctor's son she married, or something like that. And that's who the 'my love' was at the end. Or something. Though then it would be odd if she deliberately killed him. We shall see...

REwatching the Big Bang, and we forgot a great line

"Oh, it's all mouths today, isn't it?"

If the Doctor had a son (or, indeed, any blood-relation), wouldn't that person be another Time Lord and therefore able to be detected by the Doctor? Then again, there was Jenny...if she counts. Hrmm...and the Master managed to hide for quite some time using the Archangel network and stuff.
Ooh, more theorising, it's all good .

Exactly why he'd need to be dead!

Seriously though, we know the doctor must have had a proper child (even part time lord if he married a human) because he had a human(ish?) grand-daughter called susan in the very first series. Well, unless he adopted her. But he also admitted that he'd been married once (which the writers have ackonowledged must be the case because of the grand-daughter).

So I reckon there is a chance.

Or, of course, she could be a regeration of the Valeyard....

Who knows! I reckon it will be fun to find out though

Who/what is the Valeyard? Another Time Lord? I've seen the name here and there in some DW books I have but it doesn't say who he actually is, just that he's something to do with some kind of trial the Doctor gets put on.
And who says he has to have been married to end up with a granddaughter? He might have been quite the rogue in his youth (yeah, yeah, I know, family show and all that).
Well, like you say, we'll have to see...and I'm sure it'll be interesting finding out .

The 6th doctor was put on trial, and there was a stern faced time lord behind it who ended up being like the doctors...umm, like 11 1/2 (or 12 1/2 regeneration. Something goes wrong between those two, and creates an offshhot that calls itself the Valeyard, and is the worst of the doctor.

So obviously, they'll have to deal with it in the future of doctor who. And before then, he could come back (I think he was dropped after the whole Trial of a Timelord 6th doctor arch)


Oh, the doctor actually said he'd been married once (this was before apparently also being married to Elizabeth I), and I don't think it was a lie because the writers had also said he had been (I think it was either Steve Moffat or Russel T Davies, so it would be canonical)

But very true, of course

So the Valeyard is/was a bit like the Dream Lord, then? The worst aspects of the Doctor's personality, messing him around and generally being not very nice?
The Doctor has mentioned marriage a few times, yeah. He may have also been married quite a few times (again, perhaps he was a bit of a scoundrel in his younger days) and had any number of kids. The possibility that he's married to River at some point has been hinted at quite a lot, which sort of implies that it's not that at all, else why hint at it so strongly? The same goes for the possibility that the Doctor is the person killed by River.

I know I'm bumping an old thread here but I thought I might as well put this here as it's related to the topic, rather than starting a new thread.
I just found out, and thought I'd mention here in case anyone didn't know - Elisabeth Sladen (aka Sarah-Jane Smith) has died .

Yeah, saw it in various places on twitter yesterday.

Very sad. She was a lovely lady

Anyone else still enjoying Doctor Who? I'm finding it pretty rubbish these days...

Still enjoying it

Same here - still good fun .

I do like Matt Smith as the Doc, but everything else is just annoying - from daft scripts to crappy photography. I dunno, it just feels a lot more low budget than it used to -- which is odd considering the money they must have spent on the first three 'event' episodes!

That said, the new girl showing up in Episode 1 does make me want to see her join the cast full time - her twin (or whatever she is when we meet her properly) looks a far more interesting character than pouting Pond.

The budget is reduced each year!

That's partially, I think, why they have gone to half seasons. And MErlin reused a ton of assets at the start of last year too.

Ah, of course, that does make sense then. I forgot about all the budget cuts. Still doesn't explain the crappy writing though

Watched the last episode of the current 5-part series yesterday. Better than the other episodes, but still made little sense - so many plot holes and silly contrivances. That said, it had some edge to it, was a lot more stylish than the rest of the series, and saying goodbye to the Williams' was emotional.

Mind you, it was still a load of old twaddle

I wish I could watch it legally here.