About to play DM for first time since 88 - will need advice

[beowuuf]

You are in luck food wise! There is a room that regenerates rats closeby. The trigger for it is halfway bac to the fountain room.


the stairwell is the way back from the bottom to the firestaff level snd back again. There are skeleton keys enough for all but one lock (no key on level 13) so choose one level not to open up. Leve l 10 or 12 tend to be the ones to leave shut

[L_ghthouse]

Glad to hear you're enjoying the game. There is a "rat" regeneration room close to the skeleton key stairs on level 9. Head directly opposite the stairs down to lvl10, take your 3rd left. You will find a room with a button door that houses rats. To get them to regenerate, simply travel to the stairs down then back again. Drumsticks will satisfy your appetite more than screamer slices. Afterall... higher level dungeon masters have discerning tastes.

The stairwell is for getting to and from level 7 (Tomb of the Firestaff) more easily after finding the proper keys.

Also, there is a room between the lvl10 stairs down (on lvl9) and the skeleton key stairs. I usually use that as a storage room for random gear I may need again but don't want to carry. Food and water available... easy access to the interstate... er I mean skeleton key stairs.

Too bad I didn't see this post sooner. I released an HD version of Dungeon Master just today. I don't recommend you restart now, but if you ever wanted to replay: SHAMELESS SELF PROMOTION

Edit: oops... didn't see your post beowuff... guess we're on the same page at any rate.

[Ameena]

If a Thief steals something from you, they have a tendency to come back to you later to try and nick something else - any time you find yourself on a level with Thieves running around, it's usually an idea to keep a good Fireball or two at the ready, to lob in the little bastards' faces as soon as you see them .
The "Jawas" are called Vexirks, little sorcerer guys that lob spells at you.
Now that you're on Level 9, don't worry about food shortages any more - you got Giant Rats now! On this note, something you may wish to know is that near the end of this level, just around the corner from the Central Stairwell (opened by Skeleton Key) is a small room with a fountain (I think the Ra Key was in there). This spot is probably the most popular to return to from lower levels to rest and refuel and stuff, not only because of the fountain and proximity to the Central Stairwell, but because

Spoiler

Just along the corridor there is a room with a button-door in which Giant Rats respawn - it's the deeper-down version of the Screamer Room, basically

. I think drumsticks are the second-best food in the game, after something you may have found one of this level, but of which there are a few more to find a few levels down.
Now, on the subject of Skeleton Keys, don't worry about having missed any - you haven't so far. The Central Stairwell is basically a shortcut for you to access earlier levels (mainly level 7, I suppose, what with your needing to find all those Ra Keys, and all ). It also gives you somewhere accessible for you to dump any crap you've been lugging around for ages and aren't sure you need . Note, however, that you may wish to be careful where you use these keys as

Spoiler

there is one key too few, so you will have to miss one level of opening the Stairwell because you can't open all of them. However, this isn't too much of an issue as one level in particular I always find is a total bastard, and therefore no bad thing to miss out the Skelly lock on it

.
One more thing, not so much related to the game but just because I am a pedant - plurals don't have apostrophes .
Anyway, good to hear you're still having fun and stuff - looking forward to your next update .

[lord soth 75]

Thanks for the quick replies guys.
Just a couple of things that are puzzling me.

The RA Keys
Iv used 2 so far,and im not certain how many more there is.Is the 'Tomb of firestaff' the games final level?
I went down the skeleton key stairs as far as it would go,and at the bottom is a red keyhole.Im assuming that the red keyhole is the final level or something.The whole skeleton key stairwell has thrown me off somewhat,because it kinda goes against a conventional video game level design.

Do i continue downward to Level 10 now? or is there other things i need to do first?

Iv killed all the ghosts and other critters in level 8.So,i think,i have done everything there.
Level 9 was the Wizards and Rats (I'll look for the rat regeneration room next time i play)

Necklaces
I'v picked up a whole bunch of various necklaces,and im not sure which ones are worth wearing..or what they actually do.I'll make a note here of the jewelry that i have in my inventory before i play tomorrow night.

@ Ameena.
You'll have to excuse my poor grammar.English was never my fave lesson at school,i skipped most of the 5th year of high school so that i could sneak off to play 'Final Fight' and 'Double Dragon' at the local arcade instead.

@ L_ghthouse
DM in High Def!! I'll have a look at that.

[L_ghthouse]

Basically, you want to keep going until you finish level 12. At that point you should have all the necessary keys to do level 7.

[Ameena]

Oops, last night I read the end of Page One of this thread, and forgot to go over to Page Two to read what was written there before I replied . Oh well.
Might I suggest getting hold of the manual (available in PDF from the DM Encyclopaedia website if you don't have an actual paper copy sitting around somewhere) and having a read of the intro story thingy - it might give you some idea as to exactly wtf is going on (something I never really knew back when I played it, due to being about five or six and not being arsed to read the masses of text contained within the manual - I liked my print a bit bigger than that at the time, otherwise it automatically qualified as "boring" ). If you've read that, you may wish to know that Level Seven is

Spoiler

the Grey Lord's laboratory, where he did his experiments with the Firestaff and stuff, and so contains his lab notes and...other stuff...

Hehe, so, the DM dungeon goes "against conventional level design" because you have a shortcut from the deeper levels to the middle one...oh I can't wait to see what you make of CSB then . Just carry on as you are, basically, and unlock any further skeleton locks as you find them (if you find the keys too, of course).
Necklaces - I can't remember what half of them do either, myself. I think ones such as the choker do nothing. The Pendant Feral gives

Spoiler

an extra Wizard level while equipped

, but I think that probably drops later in the game, hence the spoiler tags there . I think most of the other necklaces boost hidden stats. Oh, and I think the Moonstone gives you a couple of extra mana points (Chani, one of the champions, starts with one). And there's the Illumulet, which does what the name implies - it's dimmer than a torch, though I don't think it ever runs out.
Don't worry too much about missing vital equipment - the only things you need to finish the game are currently inaccessible (due to your not having got far enough to do what needs doing). Anything else is just a helpful (or, usually, a not-so-helpful) extra . There is a good sword that I like on

Spoiler

Level Eight

, which it doesn't sound like you've found, but each to their own - you might like other equipment better anyway .

[Jan]

Lord Soth, you're basically on the right track, so keep going!

Re RA keys: So far you've found all that you could. You should find

Spoiler

one

more in the lower parts of the dungeon, you won't miss

Spoiler

it

, don't worry. And then there's another one somewhere esle, but it's still far far ahead.

Re "Red" keyhole: You'll find it's purpose later. Or you won't - it doesn't really matter, it's not a compulsory part of the game. I always think about this place as about one of my favourite places in The Hobbit, but I won't say anything else now in order not to spoil it for you. I just have this place very much connected to The Hobbit. I just like this place.

Re necklaces: I always use the Moonstone when I find it and simply anything random before. The Moonstone adds a few mana points. You can find the effects of various necklaces on the Encyclopaedia (http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/259) but, well, this would spoil it too.

And, as Ameena said, if you think that the Central Stairwell is "against a conventional video game level design" than I really don't know how you'll feel about CSB! And, I've almost forgotten:

Spoiler

This Central Stairwell might not be the only Central Stairway in DM.

[Trantor]

Fun to read this thread! I always feel envious of somebody who can relive the magic of DM, without all that knowledge about it getting in the way. Sounds like you are on a good way!

And Jan, that super-duper-Mophus face scared me. Brutally.

[lord soth 75]

Beasted by Beholders

Adventure Log#5

Before entering Level 10 i decided to make use of the Rat regeneration room on level 9.I spent around an hour filling up 4 treasure chests worth of dead rat leg meat (Yum )
The little room with the water fountain im going to use a base (Keep all my food,and unwanted items there).

Now it was time to drop down to Level 10,for what was about to become one of the most frustrating few hours of video gaming i think i have EVER encountered in over 25 years of playing.

Level 10
Something is written on the wall at the bottom of the stairs,"Beware my deception,the deceiver the snake" BAM!!!!! Before i have a chance to even wonder what the riddle means,3 of my party get wiped out by a lightning bolt.
I restart my game,descend the stairs once again,move forward 2 steps...and BAM!!! Same thing happens.
On my third restart..i notice what is throwing these lightning bolts at me....Its those BLOODY Beholders again!!!!
I thought i had seen the last of these things on the nightmare that was Level 6.

I was obviously doing something wrong,because my party kept getting teleported back to the bottom of the stairs....and yep,as soon as i was at the foot of the stairs,it was BAM!!! Lightning bolt death via Beholder.

I must have restarted my game at least 15 times trying to find a way around this little maze.
Eventually..FINALLY..I discovered 2 doors,and found 1 key on the floor.

More fighting against Beholders followed.

Found a weird big room where what seemed like an army of creatures was being held back by some kind of force field.
Eventually (After another several restarts because of unfair,over powered Beholder ranged attacks) I found a safe area to rest my badly damaged party.

Discovered a hidden room where i found a pair of magical Boots of speed.Whilst i was deciding who to put the boots on,One of those annoying thieves stole something off Halk (I think it stole his shield)
Things went from frustrating to damn near rage inducing,as the next area i found myself in had MORE Beholders...and Giant Scorpions too!!

Eventually,i discovered the stairs down to level 11,thus ending one of the most frustrating gaming sessions of my life.

During my journey through this horrid level i found a new weapon called the Hardcleave (Which i awarded to Staam) Tiggy got the Boots of speed.Also found a new shield called 'The Shield of Lyte' (Awarded to Halk). Also found a Magnifying glass (Not sure what it does though)



@ Jan
Im anxious to know what's behind that red keyhole at the bottom of the skeleton stairwell.Is there a specific key i should be looking for to open it? And if so..what level will i find the key?

@ Ameena
Which weapon on level 8 are you referring to? I found quite a few bits and pieces on level 8....Its possible i have this weapon that you speak of,but arent aware of how good it is.

[beowuuf]

That'd the last of the beholders! Hardcleave is one of two 'ultimate' weapons that grant the powerful berzerk attack option. Though some people prefer some of the others. I guess Ameena was saying to look for the delta swoes, which grants the good axe attack options, but also grants the more powerful thrust attack. A good mid range weapon for your fighters.

The magnifier is a good find, you'll need it before level 12.

The red lock is nothing to worry about, it's just a short cut to one of the lowest levels. The key isn't necessary as Jan says, and you don't find it yet!

[lord soth 75]

That'd the last of the beholders! Hardcleave is one of two 'ultimate' weapons that grant the powerful berzerk attack option. Though some people prefer some of the others. I guess Ameena was saying to look for the delta swoes, which grants the good axe attack options, but also grants the more powerful thrust attack. A good mid range weapon for your fighters.

The magnifier is a good find, you'll need it before level 12.

The red lock is nothing to worry about, it's just a short cut to one of the lowest levels. The key isn't necessary as Jan says, and you don't find it yet!

I just checked my inventory,and i have 1 Delta Sword.But,i don't think i have ever equipped it.I'll give it to Halk,and see how useful it is next time i play.
Thanks for the hint about the Magnifying glass.
I'm intrigued by the Red Lock because Jan said something about how it reminded him of the Hobbit.I don't want to miss the part where i find out what he is meaning-hence,my anxiousness at missing the key that will grant me access to whatever is there.

[beowuuf]

One way or another you'll find out what is beyond the keyhole, don't worry. Though I can see why getting that key makes Jan think of the Hobbit!

[Jan]

The Scorpion and Beholder level is - in my view - one of the hardest levels in the game. Especially the vast Scorpion-regenerating area in the SW quarter of the level makes me extremely anxious and scared even after all these years of playing the game. IMHO, if you survived this, the rest of the game should be an easier task, although there is one more place two levels below that does make me similarly scary as the Scorpion-regenerating section.

@ Jan
Im anxious to know what's behind that red keyhole at the bottom of the skeleton stairwell.Is there a specific key i should be looking for to open it? And if so..what level will i find the key?

All in good time. Yes, there's a special key and yes, there's still a long road before you to get it.

Though I can see why getting that key makes Jan think of the Hobbit!

Thinking about it, I guess it's very likely that the designers of the game had the same part of The Hobbit in their minds too when designing this part of the game? Surely they knew the book and it would be a very strange coincidence if they did this independently on it.

I always feel envious of somebody who can relive the magic of DM, without all that knowledge about it getting in the way.

Exactly! I wish I was a DM-newbie again and could enjoy discovering the secrets of DM and CSB again! That's why we play custom dungeons of course, but still DM and CSB are special.

[Ameena]

Ah yes, I was referring to the Delta Blade - since playing RTC I've found I much prefer the "Thrust" attack - three weapons have this. The first is the rapier, the second is the Delta Blade, and the third (and most powerful) you haven't found yet and won't do so till much later on (so don't worry about it for now). I find the attack does high damage for a fairly quick recovery rate, whereas something like the Berserk option (on Hardcleave) does better damage (I presume) but you have to wait longer to have another go - you can probably hit more times with a fast weapon than you could in the same amount of time with a slow one, and for me I get frustrated waiting for the icon to stop being greyed-out .
Along with Hardcleave, there are two other "uber" weapons in the game - one is the other Thrust-attack one that I mentioned. The other you also haven't got to yet, but will find before the Thrust one.
As Wuffy says, that keyhole isn't something you need to worry about - there is a key for it (hidden pretty well somewhere), but if you don't find said key, don't worry - basically it's the "back door" to the lowest level, the bottom of the Central Stairwell. That level (Level 14) is accessible by a "proper route" as all the other levels are, so I can guarantee you'll find your way down there eventually. All you miss out on by not getting that key is an empty corridor with a lever in it .
Meanwhile, omm I so agree with you on those damn Beholders being such an arse! Level 10 was where I got fed up one time - at the start of the level, the "Deceiver, the Snake" bit, where I'd kill a Beholder or two but then need to retreat for a rest, come back and they'd spawned again. Anyway, in case you hadn't figured, the correct route round that section is a snakelike path, winding through the place. Still, you got through it and you won't need to go back there ever again (until the next time you play DM, of course) . Despite the annoyance of the Beholders, I actually don't think of Level 10 as the worst level (even though the Scorpy attack noise still freaks me out a bit, but since I don't give them a chance to use it, that's fine ), but at least you are free of Beholders now .
Can't remember what you use the magnifying glass for myself, off the top of my head, but yeah, as Wuffy says, hang onto it and I'm sue you can remind me what it was for in your next post .

[Jan]

Oh, no, no, don't tell him the details about the lowest-level-keyhole, don't do it, don't!

I get frustrated waiting for the icon to stop being greyed-out

LOL, yeah, exactly. It's annoying especially if you play with one character only. *monsters attack* *berzerk* *monsters still attack* *waits for the blue icon* *monsters attack even more ferociously* *the icon is still grey* *click click click* GO BLUE! GO BLUE! GO BLUE! YOU @#$%^&*!!! *clickclickclickclick*

Can't remember what you use the magnifying glass for myself

You're not serious, are you? And you call yourself a Dungeonerd? Go stand into the naughty corner!

[Ameena]

Lol, well I know you

Spoiler

hold it up to an eye-on-the-wall somewhere

, but I can't remember what doing so unlocks. Though I can remember that nearby on the wall is

Spoiler

some text that reads "Enlarge my view"

. I just can't remember what you get from it, or even which level it's on . Hey, it's been a few years since I played this game .
And don't worry, I'm not gonna say anything to suggest what might be on the lowest level, or even if it contains anything important .

[lord soth 75]

Attack of the mutant killer Trolls/Hello to Level 12 with a THUD!!

Adventure Log#6

Level 11

Started off this level completely bemused.A message on the wall is telling me to move clockwise,yet upon doing so....nothing seems to happen.
Managed to find a key on the floor,and a treasure chest.But,i was still trapped in this weird little maze.I kept moving clockwise,but i didn't appear to be getting anywhere.Eventually i went against what was written on the wall,and moved anti clockwise instead,and for some reason i found the end of the maze when i found a door. Strange.

Got poisoned in a trap corridor when i located a new weapon (A Diamond edged sword).Im not sure how one is to not get poisoned in that room,i wasn't sure how to solve the puzzle without getting blasted by green poison gas.

Shortly afterwards i found another new weapon (A flame licked sword called 'Fury').Some of these weapons would have come in quite handy during the earlier levels.All of a sudden i am getting new weapons given to me,and i dont know whether i'll even use them.

Encountered 3 locked doors,but i could only find 1 key.I searched all over for secret area's trying to find the 2 other keys,but had no luck.

Opened one of the doors and found myself in an area that was swarming with the wooden club wielding Trolls (The same species from level 3)-which i found kinda strange given how deep into the dungeon i am.
Staam and Halk had no problems whatsoever with the trolls,and after the horror of Level 10 this level was akin to a walk in the park.
Located the skeleton key lock,and used a skull key to open the never ending stairs.Used the magnifying glass on some strange device that opened up a row of pressure pads that teleported me to a Ruby key.Found an area with coin slots (Was awarded with a few firebomb potions)
Found the stairwell to level 12,but decided to go to the skeleton stairwell to try the Ruby key on that Red Lock at the bottom of the skeleton stairs.The ruby key didn't unlock that area

Jumped back up to Level 9 to get some food before entering Level 12.

Level 12
Entered a large chamber and suddenly fell down an invisible trap door!! What a great start to the level.
Saved my game here.I'll continue the journey into level 12 tomorrow.


**Weaponry/items placement in the dungeon**
As i mentioned earlier in my post,i am confused as to why the level designers chose to put an abundance of weaponry with limited magic charge's so far deep into the game.My party only has 2 fighters,and weaponry like the Fire ball sword will probably never get used (Given the fact that my spellcaster Tiggy is now capable of blasting critters with top level fireballs).A Fury sword hidden on level 4 or 5 would have been a spectacular little treasure,yet all i had to struggle with on those levels was a basic axe and normal sword.
Just a minor complaint.

[Trantor]

Think of the Fury as several stored, mana-free fireballs. It's cool that Tiggy can cast them herself now, but they always cost mana - the one in the Fury don't.

About level 11: You chose the easiest way. The other two paths are harder and feature different monsters. If I recall correctly, there is no way to go through all 3 of them during the same game. But there is a second Cross Key hidden in the later parts of level 11.

About that red keyhole: The stylized E on that lock should remind you of something. If you know what it means, you will know when you find the correct key. But it's still quite a long way before you can reach it.

[Jan]

Some of these weapons would have come in quite handy during the earlier levels.All of a sudden i am getting new weapons given to me,and i dont know whether i'll even use them.

Exactly. It's a shame that these excellent weapons come so late. You'll find another one later which is my most favourite weapon in the game but there's almost nobody to use it on. But don't worry, the things are a bit different in CSB.

The ruby key didn't unlock that area

Hehehe. Close but not close enough. All in good time. Anyway, Ruby is a very important key so don't throw it away in frustration.

Entered a large chamber and suddenly fell down an invisible trap door!! What a great start to the level.

Spoiler

There's a row of invisible pits but there's a device to turn them off (or on again) nearby.

[Ameena]

The "Clockwise/Turn back" thing at the start of Level 11 messes me around too, lol - I just kinda run around until the door opens (I know when it has because I find myself suddenly under attack by a Giant Wasp).
As Trantor says, you chose the easiest of the three routes - the Blue Troll route is the one I always go for. The other two paths contain

Spoiler

Giant Wasps

and

Spoiler

Water Elementals

. I think there's a sign on the wall outside the three doors that says "Choose your path, choose your fate" or similar, implying that you must make a choice here, hence the single key . You're not missing out on anything too special, whichever route you take - there are no fantascially uber weapons hidden down any of them, just some random bits and bobs, I think.
Diamond Edge is one of the other "uber" weapons of the game. But it's not my favourite - my favourite is the one Jan hinted at. I think I use it on only one or two mobs in the whole game due to the lateness at which you get it, though .
On the subject of magic weapons - yeah, basically sworsd like Fury are just some free Fireballs to save having your characters memorise them. I suppose sticking the sword on a back-row character would be the best bet (if you intend to even use it), because then your front-row guys still have their better weps equipped to hit stuff. Then you basically have five Fireballs at the ready - one for each character, and one on the Fury (until it runs out of charges) .
Ruby Key you might as well hang on to - "special"-looking keys like that are usually worth keeping, even if you end up doing so for aaaages before you finally find the spot at which you use them .
Note that the "invisible pits" aren't

Spoiler

entirely invisible, if you look closely enough...

[PaulH]

If all the weapons were laid out in order of how good they were the dungeon would be predictable and boring. It needs to be a mix: you need to explore and discover what works!

When you get better at the game and are on the lower levels in less than an hour, those spells from the Fury and so on can be very useful

[beowuuf]

Not to spoil the clockwise area too much, but there are actually a few areas you are going through. There are words in eachone, clockwise beign the frist.


The fury is actually good for clearing out certain parts - or even for the end - though it's cool you have a powerful mage. Sometimes you fidn the mana gets burned off for priest stuff, and some of the more powerful weapons are cool for emergencies.

[lord soth 75]

Hell on earth in level 12

Adventure log#7


It all started of so well.But,this session ended with me wondering whether it is even possible for me to continue.

Level 12.
Started the level and remembered the almost invisible trap doors,realised that they were triggered by the pressure plate on the floor.
Ran into a couple of Death Knights,which didn't cause too many problems because they were so slow.Halk and Staam pretty much danced around these mindless automaton's and hacked them to pieces.
Found a Topaz key in a big chamber that was devoid of enemies,then set off back the way i came and eventually came across another RA key

Ran into another couple of Death Knights,before then encountering a new enemy in what appeared to be Large Spider's.

Ran back to the skeleton stairs and went back up to the Firestaff tomb,where i used my third RA key.
Noticed another bunch of locked doors (God! I have to find more keys??),so i headed back down to Level 12 to find the RA keys that were obviously lying somewhere on level 12.

It is here that things reached levels of despair.
In a narrow corridor i ran into a new creature type that i can only refer to as 'Spectre's' (Weird looking things with a blue eyeball) which were partially invisible or something.I tried to use the harm non material beings spell,but to my horror...the spell just went through the creatures....and then they walloped me with Fireballs (Killing 2 of my party)
Restarted the game from my last save..and same thing happened.These creatures only move down to a certain point in the corridor-and if i hide around the corner..and then pop back out to fire a spell at them..My spell doesnt hit them,and they destroy me with fireballs!!!

Tried several more times (with the same result),until i then noticed a switch in the wall which opened a secret area where i ran to to escape.
From this point i ran around more coridoors,looking for secret switches on the walls....Before turning around and in sheer horror noticed 2 more of those Spectre things comming down the corridor at me. FFS!!
BANG! Fireball hits me (nearly killing my front 2),i hide around a corner..AND THERE ARE 2 MORE SPECTRES COMMING UP BEHIND ME

How the hell is it possible to even explore this level with those damn things following me all the time?

After several more deaths at the hands of these absolute nightmares (I thought Beholders were bad,but THESE THINGS are ten times worse) i just saved my game,and left it at that for the night.


HOW do i defeat these creatures?
How many more RA keys do i have to find on this level?
This level is a complete and utter nightmare.

It will not beat me though!! I refuse to let it beat me.

[beowuuf]

Remmeber ages ago I mentioned the vorpal blades let you hit an enemy that could fade from your spells? time to use it. Yes, RTC makes this part painful like the behiolder area, especially with groups splitting up. The good news is that these creatures don't respawn at the start, so I beleive if you can kill them - even one at a time by pulling them back to the stairs - you are free.

There is one set that will generate at the end though.


You should be powerful enough in priest levels to cast FUL BRO NETA to protect against fireballs. It might take the edge off long enough to take these guys out.


You only need three RA keys from other levels. You do, however, need one final key at the very end of this level to actually get the firestaff. You could do the whole firestaff level up to the need for the final key at this point through. You can always do that for a break.

My guess is you focused on the RA keyhole and didn't check the lock behind you, the red ruby shaped lock? You should have that key afetr using the magnifier. It lets you in to the a place where you can find both the final RA key and some clues to what you need to do to complete the game.

The turqousie key doors are for bonus items you can only open one of the four with a single turquoise key.


Oh, I think that secret area only grants you some items and some armour, rather than anything critical.

[lord soth 75]

Ok thanks for the info beowuuf.

When i play tomorrow i'll equip vorpal blades on Halk and Staam.
Im still kinda concerned about fighting those Spectres because they wont move from that certain spot in that corridoor,and their fireballs are so fast.
I'll cast the anti fire shield,and try to destroy them with vorpal's.

Thanks for easing my mind about RA keys as well.
So,im looking for one more key on this level?
Cool. I'll hopefully finish this damn level tomorrow. (Hopefully)

[Trantor]

The Des Ew spell (harm non-material beings) also works on the Materializers, but only if they are not transparent. This is only the case when they attack. So move up to them, take a hit from a fireball and then IMMEDIATELY cast the spell, it should work as well. Of course, Vorpal Blades work, too. With the Ful Bro Neta fireshield, you should be able to take a few hits of them.

At the very end of level 12, you will find the last key needed to obtain the Firestaff. You will know it's the correct key just by its name.

One hint about the red lock you mentioned: The key is on the same level as

Spoiler

the Firestaff

. You do need to explore

Spoiler

the level very carefully for hidden switches if you want to find it

.

[beowuuf]

I have a funny feeling the damage of the des ew spell also works if it explodes on a wall. Unfortunately, it's hard to trap someting as nasty as that in RTC if its spell flinging. But still target spells against walls if you can.


And you will also need the skeleton key to open up the end of level 12 (or start opf level 13 I'd actually advise). So that secret area is probably worth going to!

[Jan]

Im still kinda concerned about fighting those Spectres because they wont move from that certain spot in that corridoor

On this level there are at least two invisible barriers that block the creatures and don't enable them to pass - I guess it was implemented in order to protect the player and not to allow the creatures to follow the player through the whole level. So if an enemy reaches the barrier, he just can't go on. You can use these places to your advantage. Similar barriers exist in other levels too. Well, this is how CSBWin works but I think it was implemented into RTC too.

As others said, the only other thing you need from this level now is a key at its very end (plus it would be very advisable to find a Skeleton key to avoid more troubles). If you were totally unable to reach the end of the level - and I don't think this will be your case - there exists a certain way (courtesy of PaulH) to bypass it and to get the final key "from behind." But I don't think you'll need this trick.

Good luck! The end is nearer and together with it the solution of "The Mystery of the Red Keyhole."

[Ameena]

Hehe, didn't I say there was a level I hated more than those containing Beholders? Welcome to level 12, the Evil Bastard level . Spiders aren't too bad (couple of Fireballs and they go down), Knights you can usually dance around, but yeah, the Spell Vines are a total pain in the arse. A good couple of Harm Non-Material Being spells normally sort them out pretty quickly, though .
As Jan says, there are two points in this level which monsters can't pass - both are on corners, though I think one of them is activated by pressing a button (can't remember). You are perfectly safe to sleep and stuff if you hide around such a corner from the mobs since there's no way they can get at you .
I would suggest that when you get the Skeleton Key on this level, that you

Spoiler

don't use it here, but save it for the next level - after all, why would you be wanting to come back to this horrible place once you've got what you need?

And that final key that you need is one of those which is unique in the dungeon - there is only one key of this type in the whole of DM, and its name implies that it's petty important, so you should know it when you see it (plus it's placed in a pretty prominent location, so you shouldn't miss it ). I tend to get through the end of Level 12 in a mad rush of "Aaargh shit shit shit", charging through and hoping there's no Spell Vines in the way 'cause otherwise I'm pretty much dead, lol.

[lord soth 75]

Hehe, didn't I say there was a level I hated more than those containing Beholders? Welcome to level 12, the Evil Bastard level . Spiders aren't too bad (couple of Fireballs and they go down), Knights you can usually dance around, but yeah, the Spell Vines are a total pain in the arse. A good couple of Harm Non-Material Being spells normally sort them out pretty quickly, though .
As Jan says, there are two points in this level which monsters can't pass - both are on corners, though I think one of them is activated by pressing a button (can't remember). You are perfectly safe to sleep and stuff if you hide around such a corner from the mobs since there's no way they can get at you .
I would suggest that when you get the Skeleton Key on this level, that you

Spoiler

don't use it here, but save it for the next level - after all, why would you be wanting to come back to this horrible place once you've got what you need?

And that final key that you need is one of those which is unique in the dungeon - there is only one key of this type in the whole of DM, and its name implies that it's petty important, so you should know it when you see it (plus it's placed in a pretty prominent location, so you shouldn't miss it ). I tend to get through the end of Level 12 in a mad rush of "Aaargh shit shit shit", charging through and hoping there's no Spell Vines in the way 'cause otherwise I'm pretty much dead, lol.

Spell Swine's is a more apt name for those things.