DM PC (Dosbox) warcry + positioning

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Re: DM PC (Dosbox) warcry + positioning

Post by Jan »

Ameena wrote:I dunno what the split is between people who consider the HoC Level 1 and those who consider it Level 0
Yeah. It's like the "Great East-West Schism" between Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic Churches in 1054. It's very confusing. :wink:

I suggest we use names, not numbers for the levels - i.e., e.g., the Rat level, the Scorpion level, the Ghost level, etc.
ferala wrote:and the rats are rather harmless?
Well, "harmless" is perhaps not the most suitable word. :) They just regenerate in one of the rooms. :wink:
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Re: DM PC (Dosbox) warcry + positioning

Post by Ameena »

Yeah I think I got my calculations muddled up there, lol - I said it confused me ;). In my defense it was nearly midnight and I was kinda tired from getting up early ;). Okay so Rat Level is Level 9. Yeah, you won't be running out of food any time soon unless you get really stuck (or lost...which probably won't happen too much in DM since the levels are relatively self-contained apart from a few items you get on one level to use on another, like those for the Riddle Room and the Ra keys and stuff). Giant Rats aren't too bad...if you get a lot of them on you it can be a problem, but I think the Vexirks are probably worse because the little sods are casters ;).
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Re: DM PC (Dosbox) warcry + positioning

Post by ferala »

I often read on this forum this and that character gains very fast wizard levels or is overall very good.

Aren't they all the same? Apart from starting stats?
Do they all require the same amount of hits/casts to gain a level or are there some hidden multipliers? Like Tiggy gets 1.2 times more Wizard experience than Halk when casting the same spell? So to get hero X to archmaster costs Y times more work than hero Z?
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Re: DM PC (Dosbox) warcry + positioning

Post by Gambit37 »

There are hidden subskills that affect experience rates: http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/691
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Re: DM PC (Dosbox) warcry + positioning

Post by Toufman »

Do they all require the same amount of hits/casts to gain a level or are there some hidden multipliers? Like Tiggy gets 1.2 times more Wizard experience than Halk when casting the same spell? So to get hero X to archmaster costs Y times more work than hero Z?
The link provided by Gambit explains how the hidden skills work upwards / downwards but I'm not 100% sure how unsuccessful hits / casts affect the required amounts to gain a level. Overall, I think the number of casts / hits required is roughly the same for each character. But it will "feel" longer for some characters to gain magic levels because mana is a finite resource which takes time to regenerate.

Tiggy will gain faster wizard and priest levels than anyone else because she starts will a higher mana pool and has a high level of wisdom (which affects mana regeneration). She can cast 6 LO FUL spells straight after being reincarnated and will only take a short while to fill up her mana bar again. Halk cannot do that as fast.
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Re: DM PC (Dosbox) warcry + positioning

Post by ferala »

Do any of you ever use ranged weapons?

I just found a speedbow (on level 9 i think) and i ave some (slayer) arrows. Looking at the items table (freeweb) it seems like it can do a lot of damage. Atm my << master wizard is using it, but i think his near max fireballs are a lot more damage (i basically insta every monster i encounter)

Btw i tried getting ninja levels by using a rope on a place without a pit, but the only thing i managed so far is hurting myself when my stamina runs out. I am unsure if it actually gives experience as my ninja levels are already quite high.
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Re: DM PC (Dosbox) warcry + positioning

Post by ferala »

How do generators work? Is there a timeout for it can be activated again? Does it generate again when the previous generated monster is still alive? I run over the thing all the time and don't see any monster appear.
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Re: DM PC (Dosbox) warcry + positioning

Post by Ameena »

I think generators can work in different ways - I think some may automatically generate a monster after a certain time limit, while others are activated by you walking over a hidden trigger somewhere else in the level (not necessarily anywhere near where the generator is). I don't know whether, in the latter case, you can constantly spawn enemies really quickly by just running back and forth over the trigger (if you know where it is), or if generators like that are on a delay too and you have to wait a certain amount of time before stepping on the trigger will spawn a new monster.
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Re: DM PC (Dosbox) warcry + positioning

Post by Jan »

ferala wrote:Do any of you ever use ranged weapons?
No. I find it too impractical, especially if you play with one or two characters only, so you don't have too much "spare hands". But I've read elsewhere on these forums that ranged weapons are pretty effective and do a lot of damage. Dunno. A fireball or a cold steel are much easier to use for me. In one of Zed's custom dungeons, there was a
Spoiler
cannon
(!) - you held a
Spoiler
cannon
in your right hand (about 12 kg I think) and a
Spoiler
cannon ball
in your left hand. Pretty cool, although not too practical.
ferala wrote:How do generators work?
It depends. Each generator has a specific settings with a lot of various features. You can check the settings of the respective generator in the dungeon map in RTCEditor or CSBuild (depending on which version of DM you're playing).
ferala wrote:I run over the thing all the time and don't see any monster appear.
Which generator do you mean?
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Re: DM PC (Dosbox) warcry + positioning

Post by ferala »

I start to wonder why i bother with melee at all. I encountered a scorpion and wasn't able to kill it with 2 normal arrow + 3 slayer arrows and some melee hits from halk and stamm. Then i reloaded and let my mage have his turn and he killed it in 2 fast fireballs. I have a feeling the difference in damage output between melee and magic is quite huge.

Also having to pick up the arrows is a bit annoying.

I think my next game (after i finish this game again after 23 years) i will play with 1 character and only bother with fighter and ninja levels to get more hitpoints and strength but basically will only use magic to kill.
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Re: DM PC (Dosbox) warcry + positioning

Post by ferala »

Inventory management is a bit of an issue now. i have no room anymore (playing with 4 chars). Mainly because i don't know what items will be useful in the future so i carry along anything that looks interesting. I have a zillion blue and green boxes, potions, chests, coins, blue gems, food, water bags etc.

I decided to drop all my chests with food as they are too heavy. i Also dropped some potions as i only use priests spells that do not consume them. My best armor is plate and i am unsure if i should use them or not as they are quite heavy. I decided to keep the vorpal blades. I dropped all ranged weapons as i don't use them anyway. With this i finally have gray colored Load. With every new item i find i will have to decide what to drop again.

p.s. Do speed boots hve any use if only 1 character wears them?
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Re: DM PC (Dosbox) warcry + positioning

Post by Jan »

ferala wrote:I have a feeling the difference in damage output between melee and magic is quite huge.
True. Once you're able to cast an Ee or a higher-level fireball, all the sword-fighting is mostly for fun. But if you run out of mana, you have to return to the cold steel.

Personally, I still prefer (sword) fighting, because magic is kind of... unfair... you know, it's kind of cheating if you smash your miserable and poor and unprepared opponent with a Mon Fireball... it's just not proper. :wink: I use fireballs only as a "last resort" when I'm overwhelmed by the enemies and "don't have time" for a fancy sword-fight. :roll:
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Re: DM PC (Dosbox) warcry + positioning

Post by ferala »

Heh, i cast Ee fireballs all the time because it is faster to cast as all the mouse clicks are al on the same spot :)
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Re: DM PC (Dosbox) warcry + positioning

Post by Jan »

ferala wrote:Inventory management is a bit of an issue now. i have no room anymore (playing with 4 chars).
Wait till you play with one character. :wink:

Of course, once you learn which items you need and which are useless, you'll leave most of the useless crap behind. But this is a permanent problem. Although I know which items I need, I tend to carry almost everything I find - especially keys, coins, water and food. I'm helpless. I could carry four chests of things per champion. But it's useless, of course. All you need is a few keys, a sword + Vorpal Blade, a few portions of food and some water, and a water flask, and a few other things like the rabbit's foot - and that's basically all. You can also leave some stuff on the Skeleton staircase (if you opened it, of course) and return there if you need. A very good spot for this is the small room close to the end of the Rat level (where you found the RA key). It's close to the Skeleton stairs, there's a water fountain in there and an infinitive supply of rat food nearby. You can pile your things there... and never go there again. :wink:
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Re: DM PC (Dosbox) warcry + positioning

Post by Paul Stevens »

Generators are activated in the same way as
doors, teleporters, pits, and shooters. By
stepping on/off pads on the floor or by
pressing switches on the wall.

Generators can be 'once-only' and can have
a timeout associated with them that disables
them for an arbitrary time after each use.

Walking onto a generator has no effect.
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Re: DM PC (Dosbox) warcry + positioning

Post by ferala »

Ah, thanx for the generator explanation. Back in the days (with only the maps i had made myself) it was much harder to notice things like generators. Nowadays there are maps available with all possible secrets shown. Things i had to find out could stop me for hours, maybe even days.

As it happens i did open the skeleton staircase on the Ra key level. Subconscience helped me a bit there i guess.
I knew there should be another skeleton key on the next level but didn't find it at first. Then i figured it must be on a monster i killed and had to scan all the floor tiles for it. Finally i found it! :)
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Re: DM PC (Dosbox) warcry + positioning

Post by ferala »

Reached lvl 11 now.

Have a Diamond Edge now, but i am not sure if it is much better than Delta. Delta seems to do more damage but the other one reduces armor.

Personally i am a fan of axes. Is there a good reason not to drop all swords and only go for axes with
Vorpal blades as backups?
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Re: DM PC (Dosbox) warcry + positioning

Post by Ameena »

I've come to like weps that have the "Thrust" attack, since they seem to do high damage but have a low delay. Something like the Hardcleave (which I think has the "Berserk" option once you have enough skill) can do masses of damage in a single hit, but you have to actually score that hit and there's a very long delay before you get another go at it either way. And really fast attacks, such as "Jab", just don't do enough damage to be worth it, I don't reckon. My normal weapon set-up (this is for a duo team) is two swords with the "Thrust" attack (in order - Rapier, Delta Blade, Inquisitor...obviously once I have the Inquisitor I can use that and the Delta Blade and so leave the Rapier behind), keeping two Vorpal Blades in the inventory for dealing with non-material creatures (though I tend to use the "Harm Non-Material Being" spell more for these). Both characters keep their current weapon in the right hand and a flask in the left, and I have them make potions as they need them - I only ever have the two flasks and as one of my characters is reincarnated Wuuf, I have the bonus of starting with a flask from Level 1 :).
If you have too much stuff in your inventory, as mentioned the floor in Level 9 (either in the Central Stairwell or in that nearby room with the fountain) makes for a good stashing area, since it tends to be a common point to return to if you need food or water, or a rest. Or to get some training done in the Rat Room.
There's actually not that much stuff you need in the game, really, though that's the kind of thing you find out once you play it through the first time - on your second run-through you know which items you didn't use last time so you can just not bother picking them up ;). Just wait till you start CSB! :D
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Re: DM PC (Dosbox) warcry + positioning

Post by beowuuf »

Diamond edge is better with ninja levels, i believe, Delta with fighter levels. Options like thrust, cleave and berzerk are better than the melee option, so for the end game you might miss them / be limited if you only axes (and hardcleave). Then again, you aren't compeltely penalising yourself, so go for it if you really want to :)
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Re: DM PC (Dosbox) warcry + positioning

Post by ferala »

Back in the days i had a party with just archmasters (fighters and ninjas). If i remember correctly i just used punch to kill mobs. Maybe the bonus you get from your Str + Dex and being archmaster combined with almost no downtime makes it worthwhile?

And are those animated harnesses Nonmaterial beings? Maybe they die faster with that spell. i noticed they hit hard, especially when there are several.
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Re: DM PC (Dosbox) warcry + positioning

Post by Jan »

ferala wrote:Is there a good reason not to drop all swords and only go for axes
Yes. Because axes are used only by dwarfs and lumberjacks leaping from tree to tree as they float down the mighty rivers of British Columbia. All other people use swords. :wink:

I always use swords - they're more civilised. And then I always come to the chopable door at the end of the Worm level and I realise that I only have the Rapier with no chop attack and that I have to sleep to get enough mana to cast a strong fireball and then I cast it and nothing happens and I have to sleep more to get more mana and then I say to myself, alrightie, so next time you'll carry a sword or an axe to chop through the door, and next time I find myself standing in front of the same stupid door with only the same stupid Rapier in my stupid hand. :wink:
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Re: DM PC (Dosbox) warcry + positioning

Post by ferala »

I noticed that the creatures that re hardest to kill with melee (animated armors nd golems) go fast down with axes. Next time around i will use axe. Even if it is not civilized :)
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Re: DM PC (Dosbox) warcry + positioning

Post by Ameena »

Non-material beings are exactly that - non-material. Things you can't physically touch, like Ghosts and those damn Spell Vines ;).
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Re: DM PC (Dosbox) warcry + positioning

Post by ferala »

Wow, that dragon is a tough cookie when playing without movement keys and with a trackball mouse instead of a normal one. He managed to kill my party a few times :)
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Re: DM PC (Dosbox) warcry + positioning

Post by ferala »

I finished it! Second time in 24 years :)
Still a good game. Only difference is that i remembered solutions to some puzzles/riddles.
At the end i was first and second master in fighter for he 2 fighters and the casters were first and second master in priest and wizard skills.

I have to say the final room (with the demons) was tougher than i had thought. It was hit and run/heal. It was not very heroic.

Also, that final animation is really really bad, even for thoe days :) (and also a bit of an anti climax).

I brought with me tons and tons of stuff i didn't need after all. Like all blue and green freeze boxes in the game. Felt like cheating to use it (especially on the dragon) so i didn't. Next time i will play it solo and focus on the items i actually need.

There seem to be 2 skeleton corridors and they link together. It confused me. Don't think i used this staircase last time i finished it.

Can't say i really understood how the Firestaff works. What spell does Invoke do? The graphics are similar to weaken nonmaterial being.

Can anyone tell me if there is a spoiler that shows monster weaknesses?

Anyway thanx for the tips while i was playing! Should i get that RTC you guys keep mentioning? Is that an emulation of the real games? Or is it new games altogether?
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Re: DM PC (Dosbox) warcry + positioning

Post by Jan »

Congratulations! Well done! Now, the solo run! And then Chaos Strikes Back! :)

Invoke on the Firestaff, I think, casts a random spell.

RTC is a modern clone of the original DM made by George Gilbert. With this engine, you can play DM, CSB, DM2 and dozens of custom / fan dungeons made by other people. You can get the latest version from http://www.ragingmole.com/RTC/ and many fan dungeons from the Custom Dungeons section in these forums.
ferala wrote:There seem to be 2 skeleton corridors and they link together.
Yeah. One of them is the "proper" Skeleton staircase, and the other one is the super-dooper-extra-secret-stairway that creates a shortcut from the Firestaff level to the Chaos level. People don't use this one too much, but if you know how to use it, it can help you to bypass the second half of the Spider level, and it's cool in many other aspects. :wink:
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Re: DM PC (Dosbox) warcry + positioning

Post by Ameena »

Also worth noting is that there is one skelly key too few - you can open all but one of the locks. Probably the recommended one to avoid opening is the one on Level 12 (with the Spiders, Black Knights, and Spell Vines), just because that level is generally so much of an arse ;). Then there's the Winged Key, which opens the central stairwell on the Dragon's level (Level 14), though of course you can also access this level via the other set of stairs on the level above, or through one of the many pits dotted around Chaos's room ;).
The "Invoke" attack on the Firestaff casts, as Jan says, a random spell. You might get Fireball, Poison Cloud, or others. I'm not sure whether the blue one is Zo or Harm Non-Material Being, but as those are the only spells with that graphic, it must be one of the two ;).
Now to take your party through into CSB and get them lost and killed and killed again zillions of times, yay :D.
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Re: DM PC (Dosbox) warcry + positioning

Post by ferala »

You like CSB better?

And is there a PC version so i can import my current party?
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Re: DM PC (Dosbox) warcry + positioning

Post by Ameena »

Umm, I dunno. Were you not using one of the clones like RTC or CSBWin? Have you played through CSB before? If you haven't, don't worry if you die lots and get lost and have no idea where you're going or wtf is going on - that happens to most of the rest of us and we've already played it before multiple times :D.
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Re: DM PC (Dosbox) warcry + positioning

Post by Gambit37 »

If you've not played CSB before, I would try and play the original version, rather than a clone. CSBWin is a Windows version of the original Atari ST version and is a good bet. But I'd personally recommend the Amiga version under the WinUAE emulator : slightly better graphics, much better sound and a couple of tools in game which make it easier than the Atari ST version.
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