Dungeon Master Forum

Well, I just wanted to get a thread started in the right forum.
So here is my effort. 58550 moves. I recorded only parts,
played with four characters, and died a few times so it is not
official. Mostly it was to playtest the new dungeon. But it
is a number that you can strive to beat.

I had absolutely no problems with the program or with the
record/playback. I would never have believed this could work
so well.

PAul

moves??
any step u took or any action?

There is a step counter in the programme if you upgrade to the latest one

The Race to Fusion is officially launched!
This is the original DM PC dungeon converted for playing in CSB for Win.
That allows you now to record an entire DM game!

The rules are:

1) Reincarnate only ONE character.
2) Kill the Dragon.
3) Fuse Lord Chaos.


You have first to get CSBWin version 9.04 at
webpages.charter.net/pstevens1

You must download the dungeon.dat (I posted it in the dungeons forum) and copy it in your CSBWin directory.
It will then replace the old dungeon.dat which contains the CSB prison.

For making the replay,
1) Get in front of the prison door.
2) Start record.
3) Enter prison.


Winner is the one who get the fastest to kill the Dragon and to fuse Chaos.
You'll have then to manage carefully your time between practice and sleeping.

Paul, Sphenx,

Can we dream of some sort of converter that could take any Dungeon.dat for the PC version of DM (made with DMute or your own editor) and make it CSB for Windows compatible?

Does version 9.04 only fix some bugs or does it implement specific code to manage the DM dungeon? In other words, do you have to update CSBwin for each dungeon you want to support?

The next step would be for Zyx to convert the graphics.dat from DM for PC to the CSB for Atari format so that we have the correct in-game graphics for champions, creatures, items, etc... while playing with the DM dungeon.

Version 9.04 is only for bugs. Some of the bugs were
discovered when we tried playing DM (the Diamond Edge
trap, for example). But **NOTHING** is special for a
particular dungeon. I find this amazing. I will continue
to be amazed for several weeks; until I get used to it.

When you use the Record/Playback feature you must
generally use the same version to play a game as you
used to record it. Things have to be EXACTLY the same.

Most of the bugs were discovered by Mr. Bracegirdle in
his 'Clean Out the Dungeon' game.

You will have to take your dreams to Sphenx. It is not
quite clear to me what he has done.

PAul

I have come to the conclusion that my idea of counting moves
is not a good idea. In CSB it works well because the whole
idea is to avoid combat. But in DM, combat seems unavoidable.
And engaging in combat while keeping the move count low
is an exercise in patience.

I am going to try it so I can report a result. I am playing with
the single, reincarnated character, Halk. But I am not
going to do it in a way that minimizes the move count. I simply
do not have that much patience.

You know what is needed? An automaton that will fight those
Rock Piles for me while I sleep. We could call it 'Progress Quest II'.

PAul

"Can we dream of some sort of converter that could take any Dungeon.dat for the PC version of DM (made with DMute or your own editor) and make it CSB for Windows compatible?"

Dream comes reality...
There is no problem for making such a tool. The converter process is in two steps, first has been done by me, and second by Paul. Combining both in one program will make the tool you want.

In a clear form:
YES, all DM PC dungeons can be converted for playing with CSBWin!!

Great!!! When will you release such a tool ? :))

Kill the Dragon, huh? Don't you like the idea of someone running through the dungeon at high speed? Oh well, I bet there is a simple way to kill him, say.....jumping on his head after freezing him. Hehe : )

That doesn't kill it... at least not on the Apple IIgs version.

no fair.

rule 4) if your name is "Antman", you must kill the Dragon with "war cry" until he gets a heart attack. :p

Sorry. Too late, I just got a record and the dragon is dead. Its about 45000 on the time thing. I will send to Paul. BTW there is a bug. My game is a bit of an anti-climax because as soon as I fuse chaos the game crashed.

The first totally legal result is in from "Antman".

webpages.charter.net/pstevens1 DMRecord3.zip

2 hours, 31 minutes, 45.8 seconds 17080 moves
by Anthony Bracegirdle <braceg@actrix.gen.nz>

I don't know how many tries....way too many. But I finally finished the
game with Halk the Barbarian. Far from a record time-wise. But a
record for the number of moves. If anyone wnats to see it, I will
make it available...but mostly it is sleeping so as to be able to cast
more fireballs. And lots of mistakes.

Antman 2 hours, 31 minutes, 45.8 seconds 17080 moves
Stevens 6 hours, 45 minutes, 54.5 seconds 13954 moves Halk

Could we split this into two contests: fastest reincarnated and fastest ressurected games? Many years back I challenged my brother to a fastest game, one man, contest and completed it in 1hr 46 mins using Leif! I am sure I could get close with a reincarnated character but in CSB4win they are weaker than they should be. I'll keep trying though...

I don't see any problem with using reincarnated characters. We simply
post the records for each of the methods that people use. Others want
to see how quickly they can kill the Dragon. Yet others might want to
use four characters. We will just attach a title to the record for each
such variation. Variety is the spice of life.

I just watched Antman's record attempt. Very fast once the boots of speed were put on, but... excuse me if my eyes decieved me... I never saw the Dragon actually die! Or if he did it certainly didn't take much to kill him! I must have blinked...

I'm not totally familiar with the csb program, but how to the rules go as to saving and loading? Is it possible to save and load your game and continue the 'movie' and submit it?

It is possible. I could help you discover how. You can also
replay the first part of a game while recording it and then
proceed to finish the game. (See the 9.1 release notes).
This is the easier way.

Either process leaves an indelible splice mark so that you cannot
do them undetected.

You can also slow the game so that it becomes 'turn-based'
for all practical purposes. This, too, is noted in the recording.

The rules do not allow these things. But what are rules for?
To make an enjoyable game. If these rules keep anyone from
participating then they need to be ignored. Play your game your
way and set a record using your rules. Invite others to break the
record using the same rules. Sort of like the 'free-style', 'breast-stroke',
and 'back-stroke' at the Olympics.

If you want to save, restart, and create a single movie you can
begin by simply....1) Save the original game and 2) save all recordings.
Later we can splice them together and even edit out the saves
to make it a bit cleaner.

I never did kill the dragon because the rule was removed and then the forum lost alot of posts. But I did make a game with a reincarnated character and I jumped on the dragons head using a freeze life box and a pit.

I am in despair! I thought I was well on the way to a new record using a reincarnated character (Hawk to start with) as I was at the worms in 5000 ticks (about 14 mins) and in the cavern after 16000. Then I realised that I hadn't played the actual original DM for a couple of years and got lost in the scorpions but I was hacking the knight with the key after 30000 ticks (90 mins) when he hit me for 100+ and killed me! Talk about annoyed! Anyway I reckon I can do it under 2hours so I will have another crack 2mrw when tonights alcohol wears off which probably explains why I ran into so many walls early on ;~)

PaulH

try to throw down the knight one of the pits and rope after it.

So to comply with your rules, you have to complete the game without saving once?? :/

Ah well, I'll give it a shot I suppose...

Drop the knight down the pit? Of course! Can't believe I didn't think of that. I had actually gone and got the Diamond edge which wasted a lot of time but it hardly made a dent in the knights armour.

Who do you think is the best character to do this with? I am going for Hawk because he still has respectable strength and stamina after being reinarnated which I find essential earlier on as you can hit harder and don't need to sleep as much. Also the bit of mana he has can be built on which of course is useful.

Time for another attempt...

I have just completed the game, one man reincarnated in 33000 ticks, which is just over an hour and a half. Also 13700 moves. What do I do with the playfile log file? Do I post the whole game to Paul Stevens or just the files? Anyway, it is ready and waiting...

A few notes on my record attempt... subject to verification by Paul Stevens.
One man reincarnated, started as Hawk. Did NOT kill dragon, but did in one complete go rather than saving as mentioned above. Time counter was 33674, moves 13844.
Looking back, I made some horrendous mistakes in the Rats and Scorpions and ended up having to kill most the Demons as well. Also I was plagued by thieves and it took me far too long to kill some monsters. In light of this I am confident I can complete it in 27000 on the time scale and maybe 11000 moves. I'll have a go tonight after I have been to the pub!

PaulH

If you can send me the playfile.log packaged up as a .zip
file that would be great. I can condense
it and put it where people can get it. If you can put it on a web site
somewhere that would be good, too. As a last resort, write to
me and I will make it possible for you to FTP it to my web page.

prsteven@facstaff.wisc.edu

I experimented earlier, and this is what I found...

I feel confident now that I can complete the game in one swoop without saving.

I played it using DM engine not csb, because I prefer full screen (and for other reasons mentioned below)

I reincarnated halk the barbarian, who despite having no mana gains wizard levels crazily fast after getting hold of a vorpal blade :):)

I heard somewhere on this forum that armour has no effect, can anyone verify this? I stuck to mithril armor & boots of speed (elven boots before that).

I carried barely any food at all, after I found out I barely need it (There's so much lying around:)

I found out you can dodge lots of projectiles by moving your character from left to right (particularly useful against fighting demons).

The weapon I liked the most is the diamond edge (I think thats the name - in the poison trap room - incidentally my favourite trap in the game) because it has a stab option which recharges very quickly and still deals stupid amounts of damage (150 against some monsters!).

The biggest problem I face is the csb engine. It goes very slowly on my computer for some reason, I have to use it in 1x size, and even then I can't move and punch like I do in DM (swing weapons etc while exploring to gain those pesky ninja levels:) because it is just so slow. DM works fine, so I have no idea whats wrong (My pc is a 400Mhz Athlon with 320mb of ram, but this game should run on a 386 surely??:)

And in reference to the slaying the dragon idea, I think its more fun to actually try dodging it than killing it because it makes it more of a challenge to free the gem while staying alive (lots of fancy footwork required to kill it).

And finally, the winged key, I discovered that you don't actually need it today, I always thought it was essential.

Paul Stevens, did you get the email with the zip file?

Anyway, I am gonna have a go at beating that record...

Paul H