Conflux Walkthrough / hint book

zoom · Post by **zoom** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:03 pm

EDIT: this is the link to the wiki: http://www.dianneandpaul.net/DMwiki

I know this will probably irritate some of you, but
I thought that it could be time for a solution to the
conflux.

Zyx will have to say ok, of course.
Surely a walkthrough is lame.
but what the heck?

I used some walkthroughs for some games, because sometimes
it is more fun! Or just a different kind of fun. Yes I cheated and
tried to cheat, with savegame editors etc.
But that is not the point.
The point is would a solution make sense?

Conflux is hard and it is also hard to come up with a coherent
walkthrough, if that is wanted of course.

I have nothing against walkthroughs, and csb and
dm has them too!
So what do you all think about it?

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:13 pm

Paul S has always said Conflux is so complex that he never thought that pooling knowlede was a cheat.

That isn't really the issue - the issue is that it would swamp a forum to put walk through threads for each level as has been suggested.

Instead, what someone could do is host a site and get all the information together into a walkthrough we could link here.

That is the second rub - no one seems to have the time or inclination to do such a thing!

Post by **Sophia** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:36 pm

And while you're at it, someone could port Conflux to DSB, upgrade the graphics, and add a tetris minigame

Wait, we're supposed to be reasonable?

Parallax · Post by **Parallax** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:54 pm

The tetris minigame should be an easter egg for those completing the game with the maleficient guild, a la Art of Theft (And I mean exactly like it, for those in the know

)

Seriously, though, I don't think a walkthrough is doable since
1) the game is no nonlinear
2) Some parts can only be done with some characters, and there are more of those than there are slots in the party, meaning you cannot get everything in one walkthrough.
3) Conflux is still, as I understand it, a work in progress, and whatever solution you compile might be obsolete by the time it's out.

That being said, don't let me rain on your parade. If you make a compendium of sorts with all the key item locations, riddle solutions and fancy tricks you know, I'm willing to give it a look and add whatever else I know to it.

Post by **Gambit37** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:00 pm

But don't we already have the compendium in the spoilers thread? Why create more work?

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:07 pm

Well, the spoiler thread is pretty incomprehensible now and has 22 pages of discussions overlapping.

Someone wanting a hint to solve the celler probably shouldn't need to wade through those 22 pages - epsecially since some of those hitns are now out of date and from conflux II!

As i said, alot of work, and nothing that this forum could support to spilt it all into separate threads. Definitely a fan site by someone else would be best

Post by **Gambit37** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:41 am

OK, I'm outta touch with it. Never had the time to play C3, only did C2!

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 5:04 am

beowuuf wrote:Paul S has always said Conflux is so complex that he never thought that pooling knowlede was a cheat.

I will go further. Examining the source is
not a cheat. I tried to document a couple
of the DSAs from the source code. My
friends, that is hard work and I don't think
I will proceed very far.

Creating any sort of 'walkthrough' is a project
worthy of a couple of grad students.
Describing the thing in any kind of detail will
require a book-sized document.

I think the only thing that might work is a
Wikipedia-like effort that trusted people can
contribute to. I have no idea how to do that!!!

I have plenty of space on dianneandpaul.net
if anyone wants to make good use of it.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:15 am

A wiki would be a brilliant idea! Should have thought of that. Sadly, I too have no knowledge how to set it up

Post by **Gambit37** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:28 pm

Easy peasy... I can do the setup, but I won't be a contributor as I haven't played it. Happy to host on my site too.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:42 pm

Hmm, sounds liek the makings of a plan

An LW wiki suffers from external spambots posting nonsense though - can you restrict the users who contribute (ie we only give accoutns to those who ask)?

Post by **Gambit37** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:20 pm

Dunno, would have to check it out. The software that powers wikipedia is freely available -- perhaps we should use that and test it out for a bit?

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:23 pm

perhaps we should use that and test it out

Go for it. Again, you can use my site
if you wish. I have no doubt that it
can be write-restricted to trusted users.

But...Can portions be read-restricted?
If I contribute things I have learned from
looking at the source then that information
should probably not be avaialble to
people playing the game.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:27 pm

I guess either having a 'spolier' page that links to those, or create some spoiler tags that need highlighting or enabled?

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:32 pm

Sophia wrote:And while you're at it, someone could port Conflux to DSB, upgrade the graphics,

A noble undertaking. If you encounter
difficulties with your CSBwin 2 DSB
conversion, you can count on me to help
in any way I can. I might be able to
'dump' the DSAs in the form of LUA code
or something.

zoom · Post by **zoom** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:36 pm

good.
so there are two things.

Firstly, some kind of walkthrough
for the casual player.
non source related.

things you could possibly learn by playing.
light tips.
champion choice, purpose of level y.
spoilers.
where to find item x, quest step by step
maps of levels, how to defeat certain creatures best

you won't get to know
the Inner mechanics..

Secondly, pages for the programmers and
probably level designers
They provide source information.

all the stuff you should not know as a player,
but things that come in handy for a special tasks
>like<
csbwin 2 DSB conversion or DSA re-building

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:28 pm

That's too tricky, who is to determine what is player info and not

This fourm is not going away - light tips, you stay here

Yo uwant a walkthroug, the wiki page will BE a walkthrough, every discovery documented in the pages

Deep secrets like behind the scenes knowledge and source code investigation will probably be protected

If you make the wiki, that is supposed to explain everything, to obscure, then you will jsut get comments asking how you do things, or repeated comments here

zoom · Post by **zoom** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:12 pm

you really think this is tricky? hmm, maybe you have a point.
As said it would be enough to collect all posts here and make
some coherent site. Some beginner tips or choices would be
in order. Then see what evolves.

maybe I did not understand your last sentence absolute correctly.

the source code investigation should of course not be public.
but it would be reasonable to have.
for certain people (not like me)

It would be almost necessary for a DSB conversion, if there is real ambition to do it in the first place.
Somehow the DSAs should be saved from loss. I really don't know.

well, like gambit, I have only played conflux2 or an early version of c3.
so I cannot write the walkthrough.
Better not call it walkthrough.

maybe official c3 wiki?

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:08 am

I mean it is tricky to police that site - on person's helpful hint is another's spoiler, who should do it, and who has the time, to decide what should be edited out and when? Best to have the wiki a de facto spoiler site with everyone contributing what they know when they find it out.

I think Paul S's point is that even investigating the source code and tryign to state what is being done will not fully spoil the game - it would simply be another avenue of information. Any real delving into the code would likely be behid the scenes dicssions anyway

If someone wants to pull all the current non-spoiler info into a hint 'book' that would be great, but no one has ever volunteered to do it in the past unfortunate

Anyway, we shall see what happens from here I guess!

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:09 am

THE CONFLUX WIKI

I don't see it as a 'walkthrough'. I see it
as an encyclopaedia. Much like dmweb.free.fr.
An overview of the structure and goals.
The spells, the monsters, the items, the
heroes. Then the levels -Which
level is the Mines level? What is available
there? A map. What are you supposed
to accomplish on the Mines level? Solutions
to puzzles on that level.

In this way, the encylopaedia is naturally and
conveniently divided into topics/pages that
are easily cross-referenced. With, I hope, some
way of providing footnotes pointing to
technical details and references that are a bit
more private.

Edit::::::
I would really like to se if we can pull something
like this off. But.....
I don't think we should do any of this without
the permission of the author.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:35 am

So tired, I started typing an intro... probably not the best intro, but will leave it here rather than lose it

What is Conflux?

Conflux is a fan-made custom dungeon for the seminal 20 year old dungeon crawler computer game Dungeon Master. Dungeon Master is still beloved of many fans worldwide, and various tools have been created over the years to help edit the dungeon lay-out and increase the limited graphics sets.

No custom dungeon has done more to push fans efforts into increasing this than Conflux, the twisted, wonderful and awe inspiring creation of Benjamin Prieu (aka Zyx).

Although there are three series of dungeons, they are not sequels, merely stages of the dungeon as it has evolved and grown. Conflux I was a basic DM custom dungeon released for the PC version of the engine. Conflux II took advantage of the awe-inspiring work of Paul Stevens in creating a PC version of the interrum expansion/sequal to DM, Chaos Strikes Back. That engine ad only been available on the Atari and Amiga, but after porting it across, Paul had expanded the engine in terms of editability to breaking point, allowing the designer to create myriads of skins for monssters and levels, and most importantly creating a pseudo code that allows many of the seemingly immuteable engine limitations to be broken and circumvented by an able designer.

Conflux II was created when zyx ported his dungeon to this engine instead, at it was the was the dungeon that pushed this clone to breaking point, turning a simple porting of an engine into a powerhouse when compared to the original game. The ability to interrupt both player commands and monster actions has seen surprising results, aswell as the ability to generate complex state machines to power otherwise simple dungeon mechanics.

Conflux III is the final release series of this dungeon, where the hard work of Paul Stevens in allowing even more custom graphics, monster skinning and engine improvements is showcased.

Ok, seriously, what is Conflux?

Conflux is fan-made custom dungeon. It is a basic dungeon crawl over many levels. Like the offical expansion Chaios Strikes Back, Conflux is a very non-linear affair. Unlike that dungeon, Conflux allows you to explore the various realms of the undercity freely. While there are central quests, there are many endings. Party choice matters, one of the fundamental original ideas. Waiting to retrieve the guild leaders allows access to their endings. Possessing a certain character, especially a guild guide, allows you to open secrets or gives you information.

Conflux boast many features not found in the original game, myriads of secrets and side quests, and most importantlyatmosphere by the bucketload. Of course, a dungeon based upon a 20 year old game will not visually compare to anything today, and a . However, a good game is agod game, a good custom dungeon is a ood custom dungeon, and conflux is a masterstroke of depth and genius ideas.

Many graphics are borrowed from classic games, many items and even champions can be seen. While the dungeon has organically grown, and both this and the breaking point of the engine that tries to support it can sometimes be seen, it is hoped that any who play the dungeon would be able to ignore these niggles.

For those who have not played the games, these pages will not be helpful - please, download the game fom here, and step into the weird and compelling world.

Once you have started to beat you head repeatedly on the walls looking for inspiration, these pages may provide illumination and comfort. Please feel free to request a username, and expand the knowledge base with your own findings!

Conflux pages:

The story
Hidden stories and histories
The quest
The quest competition
The champions
The guild
Leaders and noted members
Hidden champions
Monsters
Noted monsters
Items
Quest items
Unique items (guild and guild member items)
Spells
Effects
Levels

Post by **Zyx** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:43 am

I have no objections, on the contrary. If the project really takes off, I can put some helpful files at your disposal when you reach the DSA code part.

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:59 am

I looked at a couple of the WIKI engines
( TWiki and MediaWiki )
and see that they have per-page Access
Control Lists to regulate read/write access.
Probably a lot of the other engines allow
the same controls.

That should allow us to put insider-documentation
in the same space.

zyx wrote: I have no objections, on the contrary.

Thanks very much. I think it will, indeed,
attract a lot of interest when everyone can
insert their own findings.

Post by **Gambit37** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:46 am

I'm happy to install/host this and maybe even design a skin for it, but as I won't be able to contribute much in the way of content, it might be better for Paul to host it as he's much closer to the subject matter than I.

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 5:34 am

I'd be happy to host it. But I don't know
how to do it. If you want to do
that on my site, write me privately and
I will provide login/password.

What Engine? MediaWiki says to use
something else if you are interested in
security. My preference is for something
simple and solid that has adequate
per-page Access Control. I do not want
to have to fight with spammers. But I have
absolutely ZERO experience with anything
other than a file named 'index.html'. Even
the simple stuff on my site was put there
by my son.

Post by **Paul Stevens** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:17 pm

**** HELLO **** ANYONE AWAKE? ****

Any thoughts yet about the engine to use for
the Conflux WIKI?

Any thoughts at all about the Conflux WIKI?

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:54 pm

I think gambit has been suffering with illness, and he was the most knolwedgeable ones with wiki engines

zoom · Post by **zoom** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:11 pm

i thought it was clear already

Post by **Gambit37** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:33 pm

No experience with wikis, but as I said I'm happy to look into it.

However, if you want this done SOON, best ask someone else. I can't spare any time to look at this for several weeks, or even months: I have a busy time ahead with establishing a new client base and any spare time I do get on the computer is currently for my own projects.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:46 pm

Then there is your answer!

Unless I luck finding something simple out, I don't have the focus right now with other projects - I can try and dedicate some basic Conflux knowledge, but even that is getting outdated!

Still, it's a good idea and hopefully someone with knoledge can drive establishing it